You’re on Episode 31 of The Business Made Easy Podcast. Let’s do this, Mia!
You’re on The Business Made Easy Podcast, where we made business easy. Here’s your host,
G’day, g’day and welcome to The Business Made Easy Podcast, where we make business easy.
Jason Skinner, your host here and I wanted to thank you for joining me here for another
episode of The Business Made Easy Podcast where we are all about making business easy.
I hope your weeks been well, out there, whatever you’re doing in b
but writing copy is not my…I just can’t get my head around it, so I’m really grateful for you to
come on share your tips on this today for us.
Absolutely. I think this is wonderful because numbers are so not my thing but I can talk about
words and copy all day long, so yeah, I think this should be lots of fun.
Fantastic, well thank you. So when we’re talking about copywriting exactly, I mean it can cover
all sorts of things. It’s got a really wide, broad subject area. From an entrepreneur and
business owner’s perspective though, what are we talking about exactly when we’re talking
So, to make it really simple and to really oversimplify, I’d say you’ve got website copywriting,
which is all the copy that goes on your Home Page, your About Page, your Work with Me Page,
maybe. So you have the website copywriting bit and then you have sales copywriting which is
more specific, more tailored to a particular offer. Say… you may be offering an eCourse or
you’ve got and eBook or you’ve got, you know, a high-end service, coaching maybe, that you
sell. So you need sales copy for that, which would be your sales page, your email sequence and
opt-in or landing page copy, so to over simplify it, I would say for entrepreneurs you’ve got the
website copy bit and the sales copy bit.
So the sales stuff is really all the stuff that people have to take people on their customer
journey. I guess the conversion focussed stuff along the way, is it?
I would say both. Your website copy and your sales copy, in fact any copy that’s on your site,
every single word that goes on your site, on your page, in your emails is, you know, has to
convert. It has to have a direct connection with the customer at the other end and it has to
convert for you because otherwise there’s just no point you sending out emails if they are not
really making any sense for either your customers or your brand.
Your Home page, for that matter, if it’s not converting people into reaching out to you, trying to
find out how you can help them, if it’s not converting in terms of people signing up to your email
list, really, I mean, what’s the point of that Home Page?
So you just don’t want to slap on a Home Page just because everybody says you should. You
want a Home Page that’s going to take your readers on a journey, so they can get to know you,
they get to know what you do and how you can help them and gets them to act. So, they take an
action in terms of either signing up to your list or digging deeper or reading your content or
subscribing to your podcast or whatever it is that you want them to do.
Fantastic. Yes, as I say, it covers such a broad area and part of the reason I struggle with it
sometimes, and I guess we’ll get into it further in the conversation, but knowing the right words
to put on a page, because you can say a million words to say the one thing, but whether or not
that’s going to resonate with your target audience is the critical thing, isn’t it?
It is. It is the most critical thing and that is why when I have to write copy for my…I actually
have a process that I use, so it’s creative but it’s also conversion focussed and a large part of the
process involves research, and Jason, you know it, I dug deep when we were working on your
project and it’s so important.
Research is so, so important in terms of really getting through on what is it that your audience,
that one person that you’re wanting to serve, really needs to hear? What is their stage of
awareness, are they aware that they’re struggling with this particular problem or is it your job
to kind of highlight that this is the problem that they’re struggling with and this the solution for
it. So research has to be a very big part of the copy that you write and if you’re working with a
copywriter I would want you to ask about their research process or ask about their copywriting
process so you can see how much effort is going into really nailing…inaudible…or you know,
what your voice and values and vision is, and yes, that’s important because you want your copy
to sound like you, but also who your audience is and what they need and what is it that they
must listen to before they are encouraged to take action.
So that’s really, I guess that’s the idea and successful and good copywriting that actually
converts or takes people through that process, so how…and you mentioned research…is that a
matter of knowing exactly who your ideal customer is initially, is that the best way to start or
where would you start in that research process?
There are several ways to approach this. You would obviously want to know who you’re
serving, so yes, you need an idea of that. If it is a product that is already in the market, you
know, you would want to know who your competition is and what are people saying about their
products and services. You’d want to survey people who bought your product or service and
ask them certain questions so you can get to know them better. You could, you know, you
would need a basic idea of who you’re serving, who that one person is and as I call it, who your
delight to serve customers is and then build up from there. So to answer your question, yes, but
having said that, if you have a product, this is like, I rarely ever see them happen, but say you’ve
got a product idea but you don’t know who would be a better fit for it. Would it be, you know,
single dads… who are working from home or would it be single dads with 9-5 jobs? So you need
to kind of get clear on that. Then in that case you could do research in places like forums,
where your audience, but you would need to have some idea of who your product is for and
every entrepreneur that’s like the first thing, you may have like a broad idea, a generic idea, but
you would have some idea. And then you could refine that further through this whole process.
Yes, that research part seems to be the critical part but on the back end, and as we were talking
previously… your offer, what you’re actually copywriting for needs to be spot on, yeah?
Absolutely. And not just that, you need to kind of position it right as well. What we were
talking about is, and that is why after the research and discovery you come to the writing and
that’s basically where the magic happens. So yeah, you need to, like we were discussing,
everyone’s offering an eCourse on… to help you start and grow a business, for example, but
what makes yours really different from everything that’s out there? What is your one thing,
and good copywriting or powerful copywriting would help highlight that, would help leverage
that. You would, as a business owner, need to know, you need to kind of dig deep though.
So, if we take it from a business owners perspective and this is, I think all of us have suffered
this curse of the white screen with the blinking cursor. You sort of come in to sit down and you
go, ok I’ve got to write a…I’ve got to do a landing page. I’ve got to write a blog post or whatever
it is and you sit down and I think this is probably where I make my mistake all the time, but take
us through that framework to avoid that process, because it seems to me that, what you just
said, doing that research and having those other things right at the start would take away that
scary white screen.
Absolutely, absolutely because you would know that you would be really clear on what’s the
big pain area to highlight, you know, what’s the big, what’s that…how would you agitate that
pain, how would you kind of, build on it and then talk about your solution or the offer, again I’m
referencing a much larger pain, the problem, agitation, solution framework in there, so to
make… but once you have all this data with you it becomes so much easier for you to have a
starting point because you’re not just pulling things from the air, that is not what populating is.
You’re not writing fiction. You need to talk about facts, but you need to do it in a way that is
going to connect with your audience and get them to take action.
I think it’s easy to have a lot that…just write it from your voice and write it from your thing, but
as you say having that clear…clear pain points of the target person you’re communicating with,
would you say it’s very much like having a conversation where you’re reading what the other
person is saying to you, you’re sort of communicating in that way?
Yeah, copy should always connect first, because when it connects it can work. So it has to
engage your readers right off the bat and right from the start.
Are there things that, so I if just refresh there… so we have a clear idea about who it is that
we’re talking to and the avatar and their persona and their pain points and from there, once we
know that and we know what our offer is that we’re trying to get them to see, that’s the middle
point of copywriting comes in to join them.
Are there things, are there mistakes that you see (and I’m sure there are) What are some of the
common mistakes you see in copywriting out there? I mean there’s a million web pages and
things out there these days…what are some of the common mistakes that people do make when
they do write their copy?
Oh, yeah, this is like one of my favourite things and it is actually kind of the easiest things for
people to start fixing if they….so straight off the bat, not highlighting benefits enough. So
people would say ok “Sign up to get my latest tips” on what? Why do I need your latest tips? A
very simple trick for this is to ask why. If you write “My eCourse has 4 video modules”, so what?
So you could… “Learn about the basics of photography”, so what? And “Take better pictures of
your kids the next time you’re in Disneyland”, so what? And create memories that actually last
forever, instead of blurry shots that make no sense. So you use this really simple way to arrive
at the benefits of what you offer.
The other thing I see is that not enough people talk about specifics, coming back to the same
example, one of the most common things is: “Sign up to get the latest tips in your Inbox”
Again…where is the specificity? Not just why, you know, you add the “why” and you add
specificity and can I guarantee conversion rates will go up. So, “sign up to get our latest”, this is
like ridiculously simple, but it could be something like “sign up to get our latest email marketing
tips in your Inbox every Friday”,.
So you’re setting expectations, you’re telling them, you know what could they be getting and
you know, so you could have like a, so you could write emails that never land or that never get
caught and… by the spam filter. So you spell out everything, you highlight a specific benefit,
make it really easy for people to see what it is they’re getting because we’ve got readers who
are in a hurry and who generally are on their phone or their iPad and scrolling through while
they’re doing a bunch of other things. So if you can catch their attention with the right words,
by being specific, while having benefits written, the chances that they’ll pause a while, and pay
attention are way higher than if you were just throwing some generic copy on there and think
it’s going to work.
And that’s because the benefits resonate with the reader more than the actual features?
People will resonate with benefits more than they will with features?
Absolutely. Yeah, and that is why research is so important.
And is there ratio of benefits? So if you mentioned a feature: “We do XYZ so that that, so that
this…” is there a formula or ratio of number of benefits or anything like that?
Yeah, so would say every feature has to have a core benefit attached to it. If there is no benefit
to that particular feature it really shouldn’t be on there because it’s not really going to make
much of a difference to your audience. So I just did the “So that, So that” so that you don’t want
to do so many, I like the importance of arriving at your core benefits, you need to kind of really
drill down into what is it your customer would be actually getting out of whatever it is that
you’re selling to them. So you obviously wouldn’t write a sentence that said “that you can
watch at your convenience, so that and go ahead…” No.
That’s why writing is so important and copywriting is so important because you really need to
learn, you need to kind of condense whatever you’ve arrived at, the benefit you’ve arrived at
into the copy so that it makes sense, so that it reads well and is engaging.
And would that be then another area of mistake, sort of too much verbiage, too many words in
Absolutely. Another very common copywriting mistake or error is that people want to pack in
their whole life story and you don’t need that. You don’t need a book, you need something that,
like I said, people are in a hurry and you’ve seen the size of sales pages, they’re like long, which
is great because they convert well. It’s been tested over and over and over again and it’s been
proven that long sales pages do convert but that is why copywriting is such an art because you
need to know exactly what to put on that page and cut out everything that’s filler, fluff, not
needed, not required. Remove all of the noise and just your offer and what helps your
customer to do, front and centre along with, of course, the call to action for them.
Because it’s one thing to have a long sales page, or a long page but the more fluff that you put in
there, you’re just going to have a higher drop off rate obviously.
Yeah, absolutely, but if you have a very well crafted long form sales page your conversions will
be through the roof and I know this because it’s worked for my clients and same thing for
emails. A lot of people like sending short emails, which is great and if that works for their
audience that’s wonderful, but if you were to write an email that’s longer but hits all the right
pain points and all the right notes in terms of getting people to take action, and if it’s long it will
convert. Again, it’s something we’ve tested out with our clients and I’ve seen other copywriters
as well, test it out and it works always. So, it’s not so much the length as what’s included in the
It’s interesting isn’t it…. You mentioned we’re time poor and the length, a longer page does
convert…why do you think that is, because people are time poor, so we’re in a hurry, rushing off
but if you’ve got a long page it seems to convert better than if it’s just one quick message.
And that is why this could be like a whole different episode, in fact it could be like a whole
course. It all comes down to building your sales page the right way. So you need to start in a
way and then continue building that up using words, using sentences, using the language, the
voice of your customer to keep leading them down until you make y
Again, you need to come back to research. You need to be really clear knowing who your
audience is and how aware are they of the pain that you’re talking about and how aware are
they of solutions in the market, services and products in the market. So you need to kind of
And, because some people wouldn’t be aware of the pain initially, would they?
Exactly. And your sales pitch needs to talk to one person. See that’s where it’s really important
for you to know who that one person is and …or you may get some people who aren’t that one
person but…and they may end end up converting. So, that is why testing after your launch and
during your launch and reviewing that data after your launch is also so important.
To go back and adjust accordingly…
I read somewhere, and I’d be interested in your thoughts… I read somewhere that the purpose
of the first line is to get the person reading to the next line. Is that correct?
Absolutely. Absolutely. Yes. I don’t remember who it was that said this but that is absolutely
true. And that is why you start your headline or the hook as we call it…it needs to be, you know,
literally grab people by the eyeballs. Get them to read further down the page and again, that’s
what your copy needs to do is really pull them in and really engage with them. And you could
do that with, it’s not, I’m just talking about sales pages here, but really it is true for every single
page. For your About Page. For your Home Page. All of them, the things that i’ve talked about
are relevant and good for any page on your website. So if you don’t even have a product to
offer or an eCourse or an eBook or any kind of digital product, if you are a service provider like
I am, your Home Page needs to do the job for you. So you need to have…each line needs to
build on and get the reader to the second line, then after that, then after that. It’s yeah…that’s
You mentioned about the About Page there, if we could just talk about that for a second. I
believe from statistics that I’ve seen, it’s one of the most visited sites, yet it’s one of the most
badly done pages on anyone’s website.
Oh yeah, yeah in fact that is exactly why I did this, it’s a post that quite popular and gets a lot of
readers, is on About Pages and I had an About Page template as well, I’ll send you the link and
you can put it in the…
Yeah, I’ll put it in the show notes…
It’s on my site. And you’re absolutely right. There are so many About Pages that are just
because it’s the done thing. Whereas really, your About Page is just like any other sales page. It
is for your readers, it is for your customers, it is for your clients to know exactly not just who
you are but why do you even need to be with you or hang around you or, you know, get to know
more about what you do and it also starts with learning who your reader is, so.
So I have a 5 step process for people that want to write an About Page that doesn’t bore people
to death and I have a free template that they can use as well. But About Pages are highly
overlooked pages, whereas they shouldn’t be. They should be crafted with a lot of care and a
lot of attention.
That’d be great if we can put that in the show notes because I think that’d be helpful for a lot of
listeners and I know, myself, coming from the accounting space, typically an accountants home
page is: We do Tax Returns; We do this; We do that. It’s all “we we we” We started in 1972 and
we’ve grown to this and these are our achievements and they’re really, it doesn’t make the cut
anymore. It’s not a glossy brochure.
That’s true. So, like an About Page your Home Page as well. Just as important and again, what i
see is, I think of a Home Page like the entry to the house. We are looking to buy a new home
and this just doesn’t look nice because the entrance is so, it just doesn’t have any personality.
And I would enter the house and take a look at it, but i would have already formed a bias about
what I saw when I entered. Your Home Page does exactly the same thing. People look at your
Home Page and even if they go ahead and check out the About Page or your Blog Post or your
Services Page, or your products if their physical products, after that chances are they’ve
already formed a kind of image about you in their head and that is why your home page needs
to do the job for you really, really well right off the bat. When you’re ignoring your home page
you’re basically letting your conversions just go down for no reason.
And there’s so many other options out there now, there’s so many people doing it so well, so
you really have to put yourself in the best possible position to let people in your front door, as
And it’s not even that difficult to start fixing all these mistakes. When I was doing my research
for my post I came across so many home pages that were, either like we talked about, too full of
fluffy, filler copy that was boring and bland. Like, you know, like you just mentioned. So we
were established in this year and we did this and we did that. And I was like, no one has the
time to read stuffy, soulless copy. People have better things to do. There were so many home
pages that did not have any information about the brand or about what they offer or they had
headlines and sub-heads that were just not clear enough or had enough benefits outlined in
them. And I feel when you start…if you were to take a good look at your home page and go over
it, one of the best things to do is ask someone who doesn’t know what to do to take a look at
your home page and ask them what do you think, do you know me better after you read this
and if the answer is “not really’ then you’ve got your work cut out for you, that’s like a very
simple way to see if it’s working out or not.
Back to the drawing board, hey
Absolutely, it’s important to get that first look right.
Prerna, you ‘ve really highlighted the amount of skill that’s required and I’ve always been a
believer that you play to your strengths. I do know that there are business owners out there
that can do this really well and can’t do other things really well. But for the people out there
that go “OMG that’s me, I don’t really know how to do this” How do you go about, I mean you
obviously offer a copywriting service in your business, but how do you go about engaging a
copywriter? What sort of information should someone who is going to engage a copywriter
firstly…well actually there’s two parts to this question. Firstly, what should they be asking,
because there’s a lot of copywriters out there that aren’t very good. So, you can go on Five’er
get a copywriter and you don’t know whether you’re getting the right thing or not. So, for
somebody who is on a budget and they’re looking for someone to help them with their
copywriting, what are some of the questions that they could ask to test whether or not they’ve
got the right person?
A few things: Obviously, take a look at their site and secondly ask them what kind of a process
do they follow. That would give you an idea, you already know now what to, kind of, look for.
Ask them for their portfolio or if they have past samples of their work that they’ve done. What
kind of results have their clients gotten from the copy that they wrote, that’s very important
and also, just when you do your prospect call just kind of see if they get who you really are,
what is it that you offer, have they worked in your market before? Even if they haven’t, because
I’ve worked in some markets for the first time but I not only connected well with the brand but
because I had a really solid process in place so it’s very easy, would be the wrong word here, but
easy for me to my research because my process was really well planned. So you need to know
these five things.
Does their style of copywriting connect with you. Like I’m very clear about who I work with and
I know a lot of copywriters, a lot of good copywriters would be clear about who’s a good fit for
them, because you’re not just handing over your stuff and say “deal with it” you’re kind of
co-creating in a way as well. You kind of need to work well together, you know, I tell my clients
you’re not just getting a contractor you’re getting someone who going to be on your team, so
you want someone who would do that for you and say this is going to work because of this or
because of that, and also be a good client. Be a good client. Most copywriters wouldn’t be
available 24/7 for you so be very clear what is it that you expect and see when you sign them on
what’s the whole process like.
Are they clear about the deliverables are they clear about the payment terms and procedures.
Are they clear about revisions for that matter. All of those things. Be a good, smart client and
keep all of those things in mind. Respect the boundaries as well. So if they say we don’t answer
emails on Sundays then don’t email them on a Sunday. It works both way, so you need to kind
of, when you’re hiring keep those kind of things in mind. Once you’ve signed on a copywriter,
it’s a relationship that can go on for a very long time. I’ve worked with some of my clients for
years and on multiple projects, so with mutual respect you would see great results for your
brand and you would have someone who’s there on your team and watches out your business
and who understands you, most importantly and your audience. So that’s something you
should be aiming for. Not like a One I’m Done thing because copywriting is something that you
can use in many ways.
That’s it and I think you’re right. And it’s so easy to fall into that trap, particularly in the digital
space and you’re outsourcing for solutions. Because it is virtual and we’re all in different parts
of the world, it’s very easy to forget that you are dealing with a human team member, just like
you would in your office, if they were sitting there…
It’s something that you really have to be mindful of when you’re outsourcing. The other part to
my question is what information preferably should the person have when they do come to a
copywriter. I guess if you’ve worked out that you want to work with, that you’re going to be
able to work together what sort of information should I have together before I actually come.
Because you could waste a lot of time not having…
Exactly, yeah. No, I think it’s super important to, it depends it would vary project to project the
information that you would need for your website copy would be different from the
information you would need for say launching a digital program or if you have a physical
product. There would be some variations there, however having said that at a very basic level
you need to be super clear and know who your audience is. And not just on a superficial, basic
level. You know, she’s a mum with three kids and lives in the suburbs, works from home and
wants to make more money. No. You need to know what makes them tick. You need to know
what kind of movies do they watch, what kind of books do they read, what kind of magazines
are they flipping through. How many kids do they have. You need to know what kind of music
would they like, what keeps them awake at night and really bothers them and what do they feel
most in control about. What are they seriously overwhelmed with.
You need to be really clear on your customer and you also need to be clear on what your brand
stands for, what do you want to be known for and what’s your credibility, why are you the
person they would need in their lives. You need to know that and own that and a lot of people
don’t which is sad, so that’s something super important. You need to know why are you the
best person for them at this point in time. You also need to have, if you’re selling them
something you need to be really clear on your offer and you need to know what are the
benefits of them working with you, buying your products, signing you on. What makes you
stand out in a crowded niche. With people who may be doing the exact same thing. So these
are just some things, I have like a lot of questions that we get in to, but this is just the basics. To
just give you an idea, so when I meet someone for the first time what I want to know is an
overview of the project, what is it that we’re looking at, what are some of the timelines, what’s
their budget, just get a feel for each other. So this is like before we even talk about sending out
a proposal. It’s like a get to know you kind of a call. But if we do start working I would expect
you to have all this information with you. Yep.
I did an Episode 29 which is understanding who your customer avatar is, so if anybody is
wanting a starting point for that you can go to www.businessmadeeasypodcast.com/episode29
there’s a worksheet I’ve done there, to help people to define that customer avatar as well. Do
you have worksheets as well?
There are so many things to it too, when you say: define your perfect customer. The better you
can get to know them and understand the language they talk and where they really need help
the most, there’s a million different places on the internet, and I point that out on the episode
as well, to get that information.
I’m just conscious of time, it’s been a wealth of information, as I say it’s such a mind field this
area for me. It really does my head in. We’ll put those links in the show notes as we mentioned,
and I guess if people do want to learn more about your products and services, where would
they go to do that?
So, my site is www.contentbistro.com and that would be the best place for you get copywriting
tips and how to write more powerful copy without getting overwhelmed. You can also join me
in my Facebook group: Bizbistro and I’ll see you there.
And before you go, I do like to ask everyone who comes on the show, because I love to know
what’s working for people out there. Is there a tip or a hack or a trick you’re using at the
moment that’s making business easy for you and that you’re getting some wins with, or
something you’ve stopped doing even?
So this is like one of my favourite things, it’s something we have done for a while and seen some
great results from, is avoiding shiny objects in the room . We do not sign up, my husband and I,
we work together, right. So, we don’t sign up for a course until we are sure about what is it that
we would actually be learning from it, like would it have a direct ROI (Return on Investment) for
our business? And if it would, then do we really have the time right now to devote to going with
it because honestly there are way many courses and way many programs and all the good stuff
coming out, and it’s very tempting to sign up to a lot of different things and then get totally
overwhelmed because you’ve got your business to work on as well right? So if you find yourself
being pulled a million different directions but a lot of emails in your inbox saying “sign up for
this course” and “sign up for that course” I really want you take a good look at what is it that you
actually hope to get out of that program and do you really have the time, right now, to dedicate
to going through it and implementing it. Because if you don’t, then I can guarantee that it’s
going to sit there on your laptop gathering dust. That’s something that has helped us a lot and
it costs a lot of money and has a huge impact on our business because whatever course we sign
up for we try to make the most out of it.
That’s a great tip and funnily enough and ironically, a lot of those courses and sales pages have
all been drafted by copywriters who want you to…sign up now and create that scarcity that it’s
never going to be there again, but the fact is it, isn’t it? So…it’s easy to get swept up in the hype
and yeah…it’s great advice. Actually I just did a podcast Episode no. 30 on that very topic of
reducing the overwhelm and better time management in your business because there’s plenty
of shiny objects out there.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. Absolutely.
Well Prerna, that’s fantastic. Thank you very much for coming on the show. I really appreciate
your time. I enjoyed our chat my pet hate and your passion, so that’s really good, thank you so
much. I’m sure everyone’s got a lot of great advice. It’s the approach to it, I think. That’s the big
thing for me is, how do you approach something like that, that’s difficult? Or that you don’t
necessarily understand. No, that’s really good. It’s been invaluable, thank you.
Thank you so much for having me here, Jason this was so much fun. And like I said, it’s my
favourite topic to obviously talk a lot about. I was just really glad to be here and I hope your
listeners enjoyed it and I can’t wait to hear from them. So yeah.
Not a problem. I’m going to put those links in the show notes for everyone and I’ll put a link to
your Facebook group in the show notes as well, so if anyone’s looking for your Facebook group
they can find it there.
Alrighty, thank you Prerna, I’ll let you get on with your day.
Thanks Jason, thank you so much for having me. Goodbye.
Well, there you have it. That’s Prerna Malik from Content Bistro. Thanks so much, Prerna, for
joining us in that interview. It really was, I’m not sure about you, but I really got a lot of value
out of that chat with Prerna. She certainly knows her stuff when it comes to copywriting and
not just so much copywriting, it’s the science behind it. You know, it’s not a matter of just
putting words on a page that just…you think are going to work to trick people. It’s actually
having a conversation with those words and as little of those words as possible, in the right
order and at the right time. There’s a real lot that goes into really successful and effective
copywriting and I’m sure you’ll agree that Prerna’s got that down pat. So check out her
website. As I say, I’ll put all the links in the show notes and you can check her out there.
If you haven’t already, or if you’ve got a business question that you would like answered on the
show, don’t forget to go over to www.businessmadeeasypodcast.com page and you can hit the
Red Record Button there and leave a question and I will answer it on the show. If I do answer it
on the show for you I will send you one of our free Too Easy T-Shirts absolutely free to you if
you have your question answered on the show.
Alrighty, that’s all we’ve got time for this week, but thank you so much for joining in. I really
appreciate you being part of the BMEP community. It’s great, we’ve got a great community and
a great team of people helping each other. So thanks for being here. I’m going to hand over to
Mia now, to take us out, but until then…here’s to your success! Take us home Mia!
Thanks Jason. You’ve been listening to The Business Made Easy Podcast. Where we make