Jason: This is episode 41 of The Business Made Easy Podcast. Let’s do this Mia.
Mia: [background music] You’re on The Business Made Easy Podcast. Here’s your host Jason
Jason: G’day and welcome to The Business Made Easy Podcast, where we make business easy.
Jason Skinner, your host, happy and stoked to be with you again for another week of the
podcast where we navigate this maze we call business and uh, entrepreneurship. I hope what
everyone is doing well out there. If you’re, if you’re new to the show, welcome. I’m glad you’re
here for the first time and um, I really, really looking forward to getting to know you. If you uh,
haven’t already just make sure you hit that subscribe button so you get the episodes as they
come out each week but whatever is going on for you I hope it’s going well. Drop me a line and
let me know what you’ve been up to in business of you. If you’re having any wins I’d love to hear
Also too just remember if you’ve got a question that you want answered on the show or you’d
like, like something particular that’s going on in your business answered feel free to do that.
You can go over to the uh, website businessmadeeasypodcast.com, click the red record button
there and I will answer your question on the show and um, and be sure to get you the help and
advice that you need to keep you moving forward and uh, and kicking those goals. We’ve got a
great episode this week. Um, it’s a lady by the name of Mary Charleson. And Mary is the um,
the owner of a business called Five Minute Marketing and that’s a fiveminutemarketing.com.
And we have a great chat about um, LinkedIn um, which is something that doesn’t get talked
about a lot. Uh, LinkedIn as uh, as an actual social platform marketing platform and some of the
benefits and um, strategies that she’s using over there on LinkedIn and getting some, some
great results on that. So, we talked about that. We’ve a great chat about um, the uh, the, the
human to human relationship side of business and the importance and how that is actually
getting more and more important as we, as the uh,
the internet matures and we, we move forward, so, really great episode. Without further ado
I’m going to get into the episode. So, [chuckles] what you can get on with the day and uh, I’ll talk
to shorty. Here’s Mary. Hello everybody and I am absolutely rapt today to have Mary Charleson
in the room. Uh, good day Mary. How are you doing?
Mary: I’m doing well. Thanks, Jason.
Jason: [chuckles] Fantastic. It’s so good to have you here. I am uh, I’ve been really looking
forward to this interview with you. Uh, we met at first at social media marketing world um, over
in San Diego recently but um, uh, you, you specialize in one of my favorite topics of business
and that’s marketing and um, and we’ve had several chat since then and, and so, I thought it’d
be great to have you on the show and uh, and uh, and hear your views on, on the latest a to play
with marketing. So, before we get into that though I do want to um, I would love to know a little
bit more about your background and your journey. So, far in terms of how you’ve, you’ve
arrived here with your business five-minute marketing blog and yeah, hear about what you’re
Mary: Well, thanks, Jason. Yes, as you mentioned I’ve, I’ve um, had fiveminutemarketing.com
blog since 2008 and uh, I’ve been publishing that regularly. Uh, initially I think it was kind of
once — it was a little bit sporadic. It was kind of monthly you know weekly every other kind of
week about six, six, seven years ago, I really sort of took it to heart to start publishing weekly
and uh, and doing that in, in concert with my e-newsletter and that has basically sharing
information anything to do with marketing and media particularly the audiences small business
entrepreneurs and sharing things that can help them in their everyday business um, in some
ways not unlike you know, business made easy with your podcasting but just delivered in a
different format and um, it’s an audience. I’m in Vancouver BC and in Canada and my audience
you know, in that area down into California but I certainly when I take a look at my analytics on
the back end um, I’ve you know, developed a bit of a global audience over the years —
Mary: And uh, yeah. So, that’s, that’s the blogging side of things and beyond that you know, do
writing, consulting, speaking and do a little bit of teaching at, at one of the local universities
here at Kaplan University and um, that’s kind of what I’ve been doing.
Jason: Nice. So, so, you mean, you mean service and the no work that you’ve got background
you’re been doing has, has always been in marketing. Is that what you, is that what you’ve
Mary: No. In the, in the immediate past, yes. Um, you know, I came out of what I would call
service sales and marketing background uh, back and you know and this is where this is where I
start to age myself a little bit but uh [chuckles] —
Jason: It’s like a real frenzy [laugh].
Mary: Yeah [laugh]. In media I worked in s uh, you know, advertising in sales and uh, you know,
with a couple of publications locally here in Vancouver and the agency uh, side of things and
then uh, worked with you know, with clients and then realized that I could launch my own
business. And that was you know Charleson Communications was, was the other part of my
business and that’s then I can continue that along as well in terms of the consulting but the
fiveminutemarketing.com has kind of been the site where a lot of the content has been built
and then along with that of course then I built in some things around courses and you know,
and so, that’s over time I sort of split my, my, my place between fiveminute,marketing.com in
Mary: So, um, but yeah. It’s, it’s been a consulting and marketing education media business for
well over the last 20 years.
Jason: Mm-hmm, fantastic. Um, the, the thing I guess we will going to talk about today was um,
and it says that we’ve got the right person here we do with your background in this space but
uh, and I definitely know we have but um, we met at social media marketing world and I don’t, I
don’t know about you but I, I came
away from, I came away from there with just like total overwhelm of um, I guess possibilities of,
of, of what can be done but also guessing I guess the future of where it’s all going as well and
that was the sort of the, the turbulence of the whole event for me was that uh, yeah there’s,
there are so many things that you should be doing with this — it was — I left, was left feeling I
guess. Um, there’s so many things I should be doing in marketing right now. Um, there’s so many
things I could do in marketing and then um, if I do all that a worker all out um, have I got the
latest [chuckles] that’s coming in, in marketing.
Jason: So, so I like this three way of uh, I guess torture [laugh] but uh, what what was your take
Mary: You know, it’s, this was my second year going and so, you, you — I got hit by the fire hose
not unlike you did uh, in my first year and there’s so much he can walk away with and do um, but
what I did find useful were a couple things were I, I met a huge number of notes but then to
take some time immediately after the conference and kind of distill down what I was going to
actually use, what might be useful but wasn’t sure if I was going to get to and the stuff that I
could allow to let go. And then die rice you know, what I was going to actually do with it but um,
the, the big takeaway for me was um, obviously I’m interested in things around social media,
Mary: And to be able to share that obviously with my audience but was to kind of pick a few
things in there then to you know, for obviously for blog posts you know, content. Um, I don’t
know. There’s a lot of stuff around um, you know, messenger. There was a lot of stuff around
automation and a lot of stuff around uh, video, live video. I mean it really depended on the
sessions you went to.
Mary: But um, you know, I’ve been, I think I mentioned to you earlier when we had one of our
pre calls is that I was doing a little bit of experiments with uh, Facebook [08:00] live and then
LinkedIn native video and uh, I’ve got, I got actually got some interesting kind of results um,
that we can probably discuss and share on that too if you want to you know, dig to that —
Mary: But um, yeah. So, I think yeah, just um, just live video uh, messenger BOTS. Uh, those are
a couple of the, the big ones that kind of came up there, utilizing um, you know, funnels but at
the end of the day being human at scale, I think you know, you I’ve talked about that. Um,
there’s, it’s so easy to get lost in the technology and really it’s called social for a reason um,
Jason: [laugh] let’s see it. Let’s see it.
Mary: [crosstalk] connect with pep, right?
Jason: Yeah. Uh, I think um, and, and that’s a really good starting point is I guess somebody in
business, um, you’re getting through. I mean, if — because there’s a perception with a lot of this
too that it’s, it’s all digital business but there’s a lot of, a lot of um, small businesses bricks and
mortar businesses still there. They’re busy doing, they’re running their mechanical workshop,
their electrical business or plumbing business, whatever it is that, that they’re doing. Um, a lot
of this stuff is just. So, overwhelming for business and I think, I think there’s a , there’s a
tendency to just I’ll just put my head down and just keep going and hope, hope it all sort of,
sorts itself out and blows over. So, that’s one way of thinking about it that I see people dealing
with it. I mean there are a lot of businesses that still don’t have a website for instance that is a
scalable website for mobile garden. That frightens me but there’s a, there’s a, there’s also — this
element of it but there’s also the digital businesses that are overwhelmed with it as well
because with so many different options and choices out there it’s hard to know where to start
to even work out what’s, what’s right for you. What would you say around, around that?
Mary: You know what?I have um
you know, and I, I, I’ve been a fair bit of time with uh, not only you know, consulting one-on-one
but also built a you know, built a course material around it but just like for people who are
starting out get the basic website and if you’re going to plan social media, pick one platform, do
it well. Um, have a strategy that always drives your traffic back to your own website, your own
platforms. You know, that’s one thing that I constantly find myself telling clients is don’t get so
carried away at thinking you need to be posting here and doing that and you know. Um, just get
the website, um, see if you can get some earned media around your business, share it on the
website. If you’re gonna play on social whether it be LinkedIn, Facebook, pick one, do it well.
Always drive the traffic back to your website where you can then capture that whether it be
through uh, an e-newsletter or like an email subscriber based thing, in some way own that
audience that you’re building the traffic for, for your business. That’s from sort of the Digital
side and then just from the you know, the being human side is um, you know, remember that it’s
good old networking, picking up the phone every once in a while, talking to your best
Mary: Um, you know, I think that it’s so easy to kind of forget just the basic fundamentals of you
know, making connections. Um, I think that has to be the balance here with the whole social.
Jason: Mm-hmm. Wait. When you say earned media, what are you talking about there as such?
Mary: What I’m talking about is uh, publicity, earned media.
Jason: Oh, yeah.
Mary: I do um, when I, I talk about the five the five color media strategy uh, in some of my talks
and I um, it’s based around owned, rented, earned, embedded and paid media, so your owned
media is like your website, your blog, your e-newsletter.
Mary: Um, your rented media. I call it rented just because it’s, it’s social medias rented. You’re
Jason: So, it always —
Mary: — [crosstalk] like your own
but, but someone else is a landlord. So, that’s the rented uh, the earned being the publicity.
Mary: Uh, embedded is when you write public, write for publications uh, or uh, have maybe a
radio program on somebody else’s channel. You’re basically using somebody el-, another
media’s reach —
Mary: But you’re actually broadcasting on it and then there’s obviously the paid component
which then can be in the form of digital or you know —
Mary: — just a traditional paid advertising we put you know print ad in the local uh, local
community paper because that’s the way you’re going to reach you know your audience who
maybe needs to you know, I don’t know uh, get a new air conditioner, right?[chuckles].
Jason: Yeah, sure, sure, [chuckles]. So, so you —
Mary: [Crosstalk] from Australian here. I was about to say snow tires [laugh].
Jason: [Laugh]. Well, yeah, that would be cool for snow tires. So, particularly in Queensland —
Jason: [Inaudible] but like a bit funny. Oh, my god.
Jason: Um, so, so, yeah. So, really I guess you’re saying suggesting break, don’t get
overwhelmed by the, by the — should be doing this is and should be doing that’s but, but I guess
pick what’s most relevant for your customer audience now —
Mary: Absolutely and, and just taking it back to understanding who is your, who’s your
Mary: Who’s your target audience? What, what do you do? Um, what’s your distinct
competitive advantage? You know, what, what do you do that your competitors don’t, that your
target market cares about?
Mary: And ultimately not easily coffee’d, and if you can answer that question —
Mary: [inaudible] a lot of business and you’ve um, you also know then who you’re talking to.
And once you know that target audience then it becomes much easier to pick the media to
reach them on.
Mary: And you know, it might be great to get all jazzed up about you know, Facebook and
Twitter but you know, if your audience is not there then you know —
Jason: Wasting my time.
Jason: Hey, you’re just talking to crickets, yeah.
Jason: [laughs] and so, the —
and I guess that’s one of the things I guess is, is that you, you do. I think if you’re doing a lot of
research and you do a lot of reading about this stuff and you thinking, oh, geez, maybe — and
the question comes up. Should I be doing that now or should I, should I be doing that? But um,
you’re right. I think focusing on the one rather than spreading yourself all over, all over the
world trying to, to be all things to everybody, uh, [crosstalk].
Jason: Yeah. Pick one. Do it well. That’s the message here. That’s good. Um —
Mary: And do it well for more than like two weeks [laughs].
Jason: Yeah. Yeah, because the results do take time.
Mary: Yeah —
Jason: The results do take time but —
Mary: [crosstalk] good goal and then uh, and then add, right?
Mary: Um, you know, rather than just firing off. I mean I’ve seen people who are like, oh, they’re
— like Twitter going. They got LinkedIn. They got the Facebook. They got this. They got that.
They’re not — nothing is focusing back to their website.
Mary: And they’re just, they’re just spinning and firing in all directions and there’s no strategy
that, that says you know, one message build it back to my own platforms where I owned the
audience. Um, because that’s, that’s the critical piece. You’ve got to own that audience, own
the, the right than to be able to communicate with them whether it be email. You know
whatever it might be in the future —
Mary: — but ultimately not just tied to somebody’s platform like Mark Zuckerberg who’s going
to charge more rent, right?
Jason: Yeah. He’s a nasty landlord [laugh].
Jason: He’s a nasty landlord. So, um, and that’s actually listening to a podcast the other day
actually and I was, I was saying you know [inaudible] Facebook doesn’t care about you. It
doesn’t matter how much you spend with them every week or month or whatever. They don’t
care at the end of the day and I think it’s pretty well, pretty well, right? With a lot of people uh,
experience is particular where they go on and built their business wholly and solely around
Facebook. Um —
Mary: Oh, that’s just. That is just. That is the tragedy —
Mary: — if you’re tied to any one platform.
Mary: It — Well, not tragedy. It’s just — it’s no different
um, than if you built a business where you had one client that was responsible for 70% of your
Jason: Yeah, exactly, yup.
Mary: You never do it.
Jason: Yeah, exactly right. And I like that, I like that idea of driving back to your um, back to your
um, back to your website to your real estate. Uh, a picture it’s sort of like uh, that’s your own
stage isn’t it? Like really I mean you’re just using Facebook to put your buil-, billboards out and
say, “Hey, come back over here. I’m, I’m, I’m doing this performance over here on this stage.”
Um, and building your audience in your own stadium.
Mary: Yeah, absolutely and that’s using those platforms to not just a broadcast but to engage.
Mary: Obviously you earn the right to have folks come back and see some value and what
Mary: Um, and you know and that’s also become a bit of a challenge with you know, Facebook
now, not liking to have, not like you need to give those direct links in your posts, right?
Mary: They want them in the comments. Now, a lot of that stuff has sort of changed up with
um, some bad media players in the last U.S. election you know, spreading you know, spreading
some news that was maybe not so valid.
Mary: Yeah. So, you know they’re kind of cutting that I’m not trying to make it more about
engagement. So, sharing content that people engage on and then you know putting those links
you know, in the comments or putting them in your post in the [inaudible], right?
Mary: Or, or put it [inaudible]. Yeah.
Jason: Cool. Well, I guess that’s where the human. The human uh, element comes in isn’t it I and
that was the theme that we were talking about earlier that that really resonated with um,
social media marketing world was this that people are almost it’s like we’ve gone full circle and
realized, yeah, we’ve got all this technology but um, hey, we still as humans want to interact
Mary: Absolutely. And, and I think you know, having that touch point in a variety of different
ways obviously you know,
through um, sharing content through the written word, um, it works well but I think we’re,
we’re visual and we’re auditory people, right?
Mary: And so, if we’re going to use uh, digital to communicate I think having all of those touch
points is, is a really valid way. I mean right now, people get a sense of who Jay Smiths —
Mary: — because they can hear his voice.
Mary: They get a sense of who Mary is.
Mary: Hear through voice, right? And um, that along with then a visual can come through video,
all of those things go into adding into like who is, who is this person. And the other thing is um,
being you know, a little bit vulnerable. I know I sent out a, a I send out an e-news weekly and I
often post up some [inaudible] content you know, on the back end to the blog but the
e-newsletter folks are kind of the inner tribes. They get you know, a little bit more value of
content, value added.
Mary: And I was sure kind of something kind of fun but personal you know, might be around
when my kids are doing you know what? Uh, you know, um, you know, just something you
know, that allows them over time to get to you know, know like and trust you as a person as a
Mary: Um, certainly that’s something I’ve experienced with the newsletter. I’ve got folks that
you know, sign up for it and, and, and I, and I invite interaction asking them you know, kind of
you know, very similar to you know, you know, broken and that he asked her on the coffee thing
but I invite interaction and I actually do then you know, reply back and over time to get a bit of
rapport but you know I get folks you know, three six months later I get this email and, and they
sort of say, “Hey, you know, I just, I feel like I know you.” Right?
Mary: And, and it’ll be the beginning of this process of what do you think about this or you
know, I had a couple of those this week. Um, somebody wanted to know more about humor and
advertising or they you know, it’s just like it was just this kind of this random question.
Mary: Um, but then it kind of came back around what that was about. It was uh, um, an agency
project they’re working on. It’s like whoa, wait a minute. Okay. There’s a piece of action I might
be able to get here.
Mary: And um,
and a similar thing with when I was using this um, LinkedIn native video and, and they’ve had a
couple of direct pieces of business that have come my way simply because it wasn’t like I said
something on video and people said, “Oh, wow. Let’s hire Mary.” But it was uh, a reminder of,
“Yeah. I get Mary stuff all the time and she did this hand stop, what the content was and there
was this video.” And so, I you know, it became a point of engagement.
Mary: And, you know, but then we got together for coffee.
Mary: We talked about what they were doing in their business and some strategies around it
and you know, that turned into a project. So, it’s, the social and the digital is the gateway to the
Mary: But it’s often and solidified by just you know in person —
Mary: — talking at in being human, right?
Jason: Mm-hmm. That’s, that’s uh, an interesting point that I think some people probably miss
is that um, they say, being everywhere say on Twitter, Facebook etcetera but they’re not — if
you pick one platform like you suggested earlier but actually mix up the mo-, the modality of
content so that um, you know, here’s uh, here’s an article that I’ve just, just written on X, Y, Z
and then the next, next time they see it might be on video on that same platform because all
actively all the platforms do it now and then the next touch point they’ve already — they’ve
signed up for the, for your newsletter and they’re getting that as well. So, and then they might
hear your podcast as well if you’ve got a podcast but um, it’s, it’s, it’s a consistent — it’s a
different modality of, of engagement with the person but uh, but on the same sort of platforms.
Is that, is that what you’re saying?
Mary: Yeah. That’s um, you know, mixing it up, um, I think it rounds out somebody’s impression
of who you are.
Mary: It’s not just um, they can hear the voice.
They can see the face. They can — they, they’ve got the written word um, writing like you talk,
Mary: I mean I’ve had, I had a nickel or maybe a, maybe an illumination [laughs].
Mary: Uh, for every, uh, every person who says, “I can hear your voice when I read what you
Mary: To me, that’s like the, the, this is serious compliment I can get.
Jason: Yeah. Yeah.
Mary: They say I can hear your voice when I read this.
Mary: And that’s obviously someone who’s heard me speak or who knows me as a, as a person
in, in business.
Mary: But what that says to me is that writing was at a level of real personal engagement. It
wasn’t just uh, corporate speech.
Mary: It wasn’t you know, lasting out what my latest greatest thing was. It was like, hey. It’s kind
of cool and it’s engaging and we’re back and forth and you just sort of feel like you’re sitting
across the table with a friend —
Mary: — who have some kind of interesting information that would help your business.
Jason: Yeah. I had someone tell me the other day that, that they read my posts with an
Australian accent [laughs] here and they’re in California [laughs].
Jason: I don’t know. I think I [laughs]
Mary: No, that’s you know, that’s, that, that’s a compliment [laughs].
Jason: Yes. [laughs] It’s not — I took it as a compliment. I took it as a compliment. [laughs] it’s not
something [laughs] but yeah, I go-, I use, you say right, I mean, that human to human and I think
it’s being lost. I think it’s being lost in all of the bells and whistles and particularly the
automation uh, piece as well where you know these tools like Infusionsoft came out and — Oh,
if you go back, let’s go back one bit further to email marketing you know, pep, people are saying,
“Our email marketing is dead. Um, it, it doesn’t have the, a cut through that it used to have
etcetera.” I’m, I’m not a big believer of that notion because I think, I think the way email
marketing was being done is dead. Yes, absolutely but I don’t believe email itself is dead. Would
you agree with that or
have you got to agree on that?
Mary: I, I could agree with you more strongly.
Mary: I think email marketing done well. It’s one of the best tools out there.
Mary: Um, I know for my own business. It’s this single most strong piece of marketing that I do.
Mary: Um, and I put it ahead of my blog.
Mary: Um, simply because it’s that inner circle. Um, it’s that inner circle and it offers me um, it’s
uh, it’s uh, opportunity but it’s a responsibility. Um, you show up in their mailbox and you want
to give them value.
Mary: Um, and I own it, right?
Jason: That’s it.
Mary: I own, I own those people, right?
Mary: And nobody can change that. Nobody can charge me rent. Nobody can boot me off the
Jason: That’s it.
Mary: Um —
Jason: And, and if you send an email to those people, there’s a lot of high chance of it going to
their inbox than say on Facebook where you know, your reach is like 3% or something like that.
Mary: Absolutely. You will know — Yeah, and if you do it well, your open rate should be really,
Mary: But you know, I’ll give you, I’ll give you a great classic example on of, [chuckles] of
building anticipation or building expectations. So, I do this weekly. It comes out um, well, in, in
my timezone it comes out Sunday morning. I set it up. So, that it goes out it’s kind of you know,
for I am back east in Ontario kind of there — I’ve got a lot of readership back there east coasts
in New York kind of and then three hours later over here on the west coast of North America.
Um, if I could actually kind of get things done well in advance I’d put it through a nice little time
machine and I actually hit uh, [chuckles] this Sunday morning in Australia too. I think you guys
probably get it like Monday or something.
Jason: Yeah, Monday [laughs].
Mary: Yeah, [laugh]. But um, classic example is I cued it up to go out at 4:00 a.m. but I
accidentally hit the PM instead of the a.m. on the automation.
Mary: So, I’m sitting there on a Sunday morning having my coffee and I’m getting a number of
emails from people, asking where’s, where’s, where’s your newsletter Mary?
Mary: It’s the morning. It’s not here. And I’m like, “Oh, okay. Well, I’d sent it out. It should be
fine. I did the test you know, didn’t get caught in a spam filter.” Anyway, I went into the backend
and realized that I hadn’t rolled the p.m. to 10:00 a.m.
Mary: And so, it’s all set to come out that afternoon and but, but that told me in a number of
people said like, “I’m having my coffee but there’s no newsletter.”
Jason: Yeah. There you go.
Mary: [laughs] and uh, that’s when you know that you’ve kind of hit it and, and but that’s a
position that you’ve earned because I don’t think you know, people don’t have room for 20 of
those things in the morning they probably have room for like a good half dozen regular things
that they look forward to.
Mary: And then there’s the peripheral stuff beyond that. Uh, if you’ve been welcomed in as that
group, boy that is a treasured piece of marketing.
Mary: And, and, and, you’re right. It’s like if you’re not putting catchy spammy headlines and
you know, trying to hook people into you know, scarcity and all this sort of stuff within your
email you know, you’ll build, uh, you’ll build an audience around your email and people will
want to open it and because there’s valuable content in there. You’re helping them.
Mary: Yeah, absolutely.
Jason: And then they feel like they know you. Um, such a, such a firm believer and then I’ve
been doing a lot of research in that space lately and, and the more and more I read about it and,
and, and I guess look at the statistics and things around it, I’m, I’m convinced that it’s still a very
solid platform of marketing uh, tool done correctly. Um —
Mary: I think done correctly is the key word there.
Mary: It’s not just a sales and a spam tool otherwise you’ll, you’ll turn people off.
Jason: Yeah, and that’s what I’m saying now with all these things. I guess what — the thing that
I’ve identified from, from observation is that a new tool comes out — So, so, we’ll go back to
email. My email automation came out. So, the ability to send more than one email at a time to a
group of people
all of a sudden the marketers jump on there and go, “All right. This is a field like we can, we’re in
everyone’s inbox.” So, and it gets absolutely smashed and the next thing you know, uh,
automatic funnels come out like Infusionsoft and things like that and everyone’s over there
now emails dead because you can go over here and you can you know, do all this and then now
it’s bots and uh, Facebook messenger. It’s a path but you know automation of, of we can really
we get in there but again, all those things um, uh, done well but I think, what, what, when I say
done well, it’s when we realize after they have exhausted and we get that human to human, we
say,”Hang on, we do still want to talk to real people.
Jason: We still do want to see real people and we want people to show up etcetera, that
um, that you really get the best results um, out, out of that —
Mary: Right, yeah.
Jason: Actually, I think, just on that messenger bots thing, I saw that Facebook’s
actually cancel or uh, suspended any new bots from 7, from a certain date in April. I
don’t know if you’ve seen that at all. Um, it might be over by the time this episode goes
up but yeah, I heard um, I heard the other day that from a certain — because of all the
stuff that’s been going on with Facebook and um a political side of things over there,
they’re, they’ve um, suspended any new bots and [Crosstalk]
Mary: Hmm, okay, well, it’s — you know the whole, it’s — that’s uh, — in Canada, we sort
of watch — well, not and like you do in Australia with somewhat the shock and all
amazement, political space uh, south south of our border but uh, you know at the end
of the day Facebook is a media company whether they want to recognize it or not and
they’re gonna have to play as a media company role so.
Jason: Yeah. Yeah.
Mary: And, and when you have that kind of much power, um,
you’ve gotta, you’ve gotta figure out the rules such your teenagers just kind of grow up,
Jason: Yeah. Yeah, Well, it’s dangerous for people that are going out launching their
whole business around that, around that, that media.
Mary: Yeah, definitely.
Jason: So, so dangerous. So, so, that’s, that’s obviously, the critical message out of that
is keep that human to human um, uh, element about your marketing with, with, with the
people and building community. I guess community is the other thing that came out of
the social media marketing world was I guess building community around your brand.
Um, you’re clearly doing that with your email. Are, are there other ways that you’re
doing that in your business?
Mary: Well, obviously, that, that doesn’t involve — there’s a huge piece of that and again
both piece uh, the blog and the e-newsletter come from a position of, of, of sharing of,
um, what can I share that will benefit my target audience? That’s, that’s you know, kind
of the question you come from and that by doing that then you position yourself in your
area of expertise and when you do that over a period of time you earn the right to, to,
um, you know to get the business uh, potentially from people who may need your help.
It’s all social but overtime it’s, it’s, it’s the way some of the business works —
Mary: — and obviously you know networking and uh, and you know the folks um,
speaking right and that’s the other, the other piece of it, yeah.
Jason: Cool. Um, let’s talk about LinkedIn. You’ve been doing a lot of uh — and we had a,
we had a, a pre-interview call but now you, you — a couple of weeks back — but you
were, you were just starting to do some experiments around the LinkedIn space and I
must have been, I’ve been uh, in there having to go there myself as well just to checking
it out. LinkedIn seems to be a bit of a, a , a forgotten, um, platform out there but, but,
but certainly seems to be getting some traction. You said, hey you further here?
Mary: It is. Um, you know I think um, I think
we were all so excited around Facebook and you know, let’s face it, Facebook is still the
big news, right? They’re the big broadcast network. They’re the one that have the huge
Mary: I’m not, I’m not down playing Facebook as, as an important platform but as
you’ve said I think LinkedIn is a little bit um, in, in terms of its potential power maybe of
a forgotten source in the middle of all this. I went to a couple of sessions on LinkedIn at
social media marketing world of Viveka Von Rosen, uh which is doing one of them, um,
in talking about link uh, LinkedIn native video and I started to play around and then do
some a bit of experiment uh, with, with video. What I started doing — I’ve done for it
now for the last five weeks — is posting up, initially I would do it as a Facebook live
video on usually, it’s either Thursday or Friday saying,”Hey, here’s what I’m working on
this week for the e-newsletter. Here’s the content that will be going out.” A bit of a
tease around it and then also inviting e-newsletter sign ups for folks that would see
that out in the feed. Did it and then uh, kept the video, saved it and then I would post it
up on LinkedIn and so it was kind of running this parallel universe, kind of putting one
video to the other and because the Facebook live videos, like it just run for like a
minute and a half and so it’s fairly short so it’s not like you’re you know you get a bunch
of people on boarding on your live and you’re engaging with them. It’s more of a live
heads up broadcast and so I’ve been running these parallels um, side by side and some
interesting stuff has come out of it and so I’m just, I’m just gonna check my notes here
’cause I, I wrote a bit about it um, in my e-newsletter this week but I haven’t shared it
out on the blog and probably won’t for a couple of weeks. But um, organic reach for
video on LinkedIn, what I’m finding is about four to six times higher than on Facebook.
Mary: Uh, which I think is fairly significant. Now this is anecdotal over five weeks.
Um, but you know two of those native videos were seen by you know, well over half of
my LinkedIn connections. Uh, now again, it depends on who you’ve — how you’ve built
your LinkedIn uh, audience but minus — you know it’s, I can honestly say, I probably, I
know you know close to 99.5% of all the people I’ve connected with and I can tell you
where I met them and, and how we’ve, we’ve ever done business or I, in some way know
them and they’re senior people. So I look at that and I go, “Wow, okay, that was a very,
— it’s not only a great organic reach, its quality reach.” Um, the interactions are two to
three times more on LinkedIn than Facebook which again, I found really curious, right?
So I have to say with Facebook interactions aren’t good but the LinkedIn ones it’s really
interesting. Is that you get, it’s not just the likes, it’s the shares, it’s the comments and
the ripple effect of that. Um, the, you know and again the content to obviously decision
makers is a huge one. Um, but it also seems that the video reach on LinkedIn continues
to grow. So you know, when you put it out initially on Facebook, there’s a big, you know,
there’s a big kind of burst of, of show and then it kind of falls off recently quickly. The
LinkedIn video, like I’ve gone back in the last two-three weeks is like well, it’s
continuing to grow. Like I don’t know, I’m not sure how they — how the algorithms are,
are different but it seems that it continues to get this reach.
Mary: You know [Inaudible]
Jason: I’m wondering with the Facebook algorithm because I know, I know the, the uh,
Mark Zuckerberg announcing back in January was that um, they’re looking for
engagement. So I’m just wondering whether or not they, they give it a burst at the start
when you put that video out and then they, the algorithm’s testing to see if that, if that
doesn’t pick up, they just sort of downgrade it whereas
LinkedIn’s more looking full content out there. They’ve, they’ve [crosstalk]
Jason: They want to click and [crosstalk]
Mary: And that could all be [inaudible] the back of it, right? It’s, you know ’cause um, if
it, if the interactions like I said, it ramps up, it ramps up nicely at the beginning but then
if it doesn’t continue that uh, then it does through a loss. So yeah that you probably
fairly a student on observation.
Jason: Hmm, um, you, you mentioned — that’s interesting stuff ’cause I’ve uh, I’ve
interviewed Dinesh Rudra, the other day and we were talking about LinkedIn as well.
That was uh, episode 32, I think it was, um, and he’s been getting a sign result. He’s
been getting results with a video in, in LinkedIn. You mentioned that a really important
point, uh, there around the way you build your audience on LinkedIn and that seems to
be that you’ve got a fairly strong community aspect to your LinkedIn.
Mary: You know what? It’s um, I, I’m not sure that I mean, now it seems like a brilliant
strategy but it at, at that time is like I’m building up. It wasn’t — I mean it was purposeful
but it wasn’t necessarily — it was just — it was more of an authenticity thing for me is
that I wanted to be a little — you know somebody would send me a LinkedIn invites. It’s
like, “Oh, you know, remind me how I know you.” Like it’s just, like a — you know and
that so I, at one point somebody accuse me of being, of being a bit of a LinkedIn snob
and I said, “I’m, I’m not being a snob. It’s just like, generally, I see as a platform that I
want to say that I — there is a connection here. I know you.” Um, especially — and you
know I don’t want somebody just to come in and use my contacts. Um, you know, I do
get it, from time to time with you know, students so I always say, “If you graduated, I’d
love to have you as LinkedIn.” But I don’t want somebody kind of combing my, my
contacts and then trying to leverage just for their own personal gain. So, as a result, my
LinkedIn connections tend to have the,
what I call you know, um, folks that uh, are decision makers and but as I said, people
who, either some connection there, they- or they’ve done business like met face to
face, I’ve been introduced to via somebody else. Occasionally, there’ll be a-a-a — you
know I’ll, I’ll get this request from someone that’s like,”I don’t really know you.” But I’ll
look at and I go, “But I know some of your connections.” So I reply back, “Be happy to
connect. I see you know so and so.” Um, and that’s usually when I’ve looked at their —
I’ve looked at their uh, their signature and I go, “Whoa, okay, yeah let’s, let’s be
Jason: There’s a lot of letters after that name.
Mary: Um, so but as a result, that group of people then I see as a, just it’s, it’s a really
desirable group to broadcast to. It’s not — you know my Facebook group, I’ve — you
know it’s — that’s really solid connections as well but it’s a [inaudible] of business,
friends, relatives, I mean it’s, it’s all over the map um, you know, my page, that one’s a
little bit more structured but the personal one is, it’s just, it’s, it’s just the way that the
uh, the connections were built over time so it’s just, it’s kind of all over.
Jason: It would, probably, as you’re just telling me that it sort of um, coming to me that
um, potentially, I guess if you’ll look at LinkedIn, it could, could be a perfect platform for
businesses in, in the sense that um, not, not business to business transactions, business
to customers as well like people to people if you like but you’re getting better delivery
of content because I mean, I thought — I think of Facebook, you know, you can have a
million like, you can have a million followers on Facebook, it doesn’t matter because
chances are only three percent are going to actually see that content. Really, how, how
good is the relationship that you have with those people? Now we’ve been talking on
this episode about um, human to human. Um, so, so there’s an opportunity there for the
business owners to actually get in and know their LinkedIn people build relationships
with those people and really cleanse it out so that it’s, it’s a, its a, a solid base of, of, of —
and then when you do put content out, it’s LinkedIn uh, um, putting it forward out
Mary: Absolutely. It’s, you know and I think the big thing there is obviously, LinkedIn is
organic reach. Uh, you know on Facebook, we can you know, you can pay to get your
content out. Um, if you build good audiences on Facebook from people who’ve been on
your website you know, upload your e-newsletter list and create audiences, obviously,
you can pay, you know, put content out there and, and get that reach. But organically, if
you built that audience on LinkedIn really well, you know that anything organic on you
know, to that reach is going to be amazing. I think what it holds real opportunity for
small business entrepreneurs, solopreneurs, you know so um, you know speakers,
writers, consultants, um, anybody who’s a solopreneur that they can use their personal
profile to uh, you know as, as part of — so they are the front person for the business or
have a major, they’re major part of it, I think that can be, it’s, it could be a great platform
Jason: Hmm, yeah, I know, it’s an opportunity. I really say an opportunity then it’s
interesting to, to hear, hear you’re getting those results and I guess and it
complements your email marketing strategy and your uh, blog and, and [Crosstalk]
Jason: You know, it’s sort of like the, the, the solid social media platform if you like to
complement those, those assets that you-you-you-you built at the back end.
Mary: Well, like I said, I, I use it as a bit of an experiment the last number of weeks to uh,
to kind of pre-promote um, e-newsletter, pre-promote the blog and also then to you
know solicit e-newsletter sign-ups and, and, that’s another interesting back-end piece.
So I was able to look on the back-end into Google analytics and take a look at traffic.
That’s really interesting as well is that I can see the traffic coming in from LinkedIn.
Mary: I can, uh — and then I can see the quality of that traffic. I can see the um, the
amount of time they spent and the number of pages deep they went. So that leads me
to believe that, that’s a very valuable thing. The other interesting thing with LinkedIn is
that, you can see uh, so people who have viewed the video. Uh, it doesn’t tell you the
specific person but it tells you the business and the industry and because I, I know my
LinkedIn connections reasonably well, I kind of go, “Oh I didn’t know that was Lisa. “
Right? Like, like I could almost, you know — uh, but at the very least I can see the uh, the
businesses in the industries and the titles of the folks who viewed that video.
Mary: That’s unbelievable. From a potential sales in marketing stand point, um, to be
able to see that, that’s, that’s almost as good as being able to you know, measure on
your e-newletter who opened your stuff and to be able to you know pick up the phone
and you’re not gonna say, “Hey, I saw you we are reading my, you know, whatever.” But
you can certainly know that they’re potentially interested in this topic area this week
and that might be the beginning of you know, an engaging conversation uh, about their
Jason: Particularly if you’re getting or waiting in a particular industry or profession, you
know you may, you may sort of throw in an um, sort of dominant piece of content there
for to, to support that, you know, to, to [crosstalk]
Mary: [inaudible] yeah, that’s, that’s actually a really — I haven’t yeah, I’m gonna use
Jason: But yeah, I mean, you, you can sort of say, “Well, yeah, I’m getting a bit of
Mary: Yeah and that’s true. I think they’re seeing you getting views from particular
industry, right? Like, let’s — I don’t know um, and so then you actually build a piece of
content that you know it’s gonna get picked up there.
Jason: Yeah. That is one of the — that is one of the things of the human to human thing
and it’s one the things that I’m looking at with particularly with my email, emails — um I
call them email people not, not subscribers but — um, my, my, my, my community, email
community, is that, that um, segregating them and I guess into um, where they are in
business at, at this particular point of time allows you to tailor that message and I think
you’d be able to get that information from LinkedIn by the sounds of it um, which will
really resonate with, with with it but I really love that concept of um, building a
community on LinkedIn that knows you and um, yeah. You mentioned you’re getting,
you are getting email subscribers from LinkedIn?
Mary: So what I’m getting when I, when I posted up on LinkedIn, I do it as native video
and then in the comment section I’m putting a you know uh, — well, actually in the post
I’m putting a little bit about what they uh, what they content is gonna be this week. It
sort of it supports the video and then in the comments I put a uh, link to subscribe to
the e-newsletter if you wanna be kind of on the inside [inaudible], to get this coming at
this weekend and then go back into the post later and also share if it’s been posted up
for blog. So um,obviously I have, I have these fillers right there that feed the
e-newsletter subscription on a number of places but you can definitely see a bit of a
boost you know, in it uh, immediately after you’re doing that. You know I haven’t
gotten, I probably should, it’ll be a little fancy with it and have a specific uh, kind of tag
to that sign up so I’d know it’s coming from my LinkedIn. Um, I’m thinking
these things as, as I’m speaking, right?
Jason: It’s okay, yeah.
Mary: But it’s the [crosstalk]
Jason: If you create a um — I don’t know if you use, I don’t know if you use Pretty Link
on you blog — um, that’s a WordPress plugin.
Mary: Yeah. Yeah.
Jason: Yeah, that would, that would crosstalk]
Mary: And I know of it. I know of it, yeah, yeah.
Jason: Yes you could create a specific link.
Mary: I could create a specific link, yeah, yeah.
Jason: The other one I’ve been using a lot if which has been really great is uh, called
Genius, Genius Link.
Jason: And um, it’s actually, I find it better than Pretty Link in terms of analytics and the
reason for that is that it tells me the geographics of where that links being clicked.
Mary: Oh, so what was that one again?
Jason: It’s called Genius Link. I’ll actually, I’ll put a link in the show note for this as well
but uh, let me just give you the URL for that would be uh, gen — sorry, it’s genie .
Mary: Oh okay, genie link c[rosstalk]
Jason: Sorry, it is genius link, genius link.
Jason: G-E-N-I-U-S L-I-N-K and um, what you can do with that is actually create — it’s
very good for affiliate links and things but um, you can create a link and um, specific to
what you want and then um, you can track where that links being clicked and even
what source or devices it’s being clicked on as well as um, uh, what geographics. So
where it’s coming from in the world, uh, you can get a, a bit of a feel of that as well. So
it’s a good way if you want to see how that is working.
Mary: Yeah, cool.
Jason: Nice but I put a link into the show notes as well for that so um, if anyone else is
interesting in that but um, there it is, fantastic so really just to summarize um, we’re
looking to um, email is not dead, um, but if we can do it in a human fashion and, and
around our email and, and, and I think I really love that concept of human to human
business. It’s, it’s like good old-fashioned business but in a digital space. Um, and then
we, we — it doesn’t matter we don’t use um, automation and all the tools and
technololgy but that’s later on once we’ve got the relationship and we’re looking to
deliver content in a, in a, in an efficient way, uh, I guess that’s where the technology
would, would come into the puzzle, is that, is that how you say it?
Mary: Yeah, I, absolutely but it also, it’s you know and it’s uh, you know taking those
digital relationships and turn them into human to human relationships, you know, face
to face as well, right? It’s um, I, I think it’s so easy just to get lost in the whole thing of in
business, really, it’s, it’s relationships, it’s [inaudible]
Jason: Yeah. Yeah and even if you’ve got a — even if you’ve got an email list and that sort
of thing, it doesn’t hurt to, to send an email up to them and just say,”Hi, doing a job on
Skype call. I’d love to hear what you’re doing in your business um, right now.
Mary: You know what and, and that might be a great way to stand out because it’s like
who else is doing that?
Jason: Yeah exactly.
Mary: Um, you know I, I think, uh, if you, if you took — you know the old lady twenty
year-old but if you took a look at your customer base and you know took a look at you
know that eighty percent of business is coming from twenty percent of your customers
and picked up the phone uh, maybe wrote them a, you know like a letter, right? Like
actually like you know, maybe type something out but then write a few notes at the
bottom up of it kind of thing and send it off in, in a, in a world of you know where it’s all
digital actually just being human, picking up the phone and receiving something hand
written in the mail.
Mary: Gee, like I kind of think that might stand out, right? As much as we’re talking
about digital here, we’re talking about human needs and connections and sometimes
just kind of zig in when when everybody else is zag and it’s a, it’s a good, good
Jason: I’m a firm believer, where, where everyone else is going I always go, I always go
direction and yes it, well ain’t be as many people over there but I tell you what, it’s not
as noisy and uh, you can have a lot of conversations with people than you can where all
the crowd is in there and all the fanfare. So uh, yeah, I, I think that’s a great, great
lesson. Oh that’s Fantastic, Mary, um, I’m just going to some time I can up to there, I
always like to ask some — I always like to ask guests when they come on the show, what
is — and we’ve spoke about a lot of things that working for you so — what’s probably
better to go with something that’s, that, that, that you found not to work but um, I love
to get a tip from our um, from our guests that come on the show as to, to what’s your
big thing at the moment that’s really working for you. That could be a productivity,
could be an app, could be a bit of software, whatever, is there something in your
business you go,”Well, I can’t live with this up without this right now.”
Mary: Can’t live without, gosh, um [crosstalk]
Jason: Oh which is working or something you’ve stopped doing that, that uh —
Mary: Ah, you know what? Um, this is going to sound so crazy but uh, I was, yeah I was
traveling for a while down in the States and I actually gonna be travelling uh, that back
down the States next week and then down into Nicaragua, but when I was away just
because we get host for our, our um, our data plan in Canada like it’s, like it’s nobody’s
business and so I turned off my notifications. I and I had a bit of a — I had some data plan
but I was being really conscious to not accidentally get — be getting some flip and
update that I didn’t need in using up on my data plan. When I came back to Canada and,
and I left off my notifications and I know it sounds really scary um, but I was really
productive when I didn’t see these little buttons all popping up saying uh, you know,
“Give me attention. I need attention. I — you know –.” There’s, there’s, there’s three
notifications. So as to say I don’t pay attention to it but it, it made me very mindful of
how I spent my time.
Mary: Obviously, I,
you know, I, I designate certain times and I’ll come and I’ll take a look at this stuff and if
I’ve got something that’s, that’s you know it’s a live one, I’ll just post it. Something I
know that there’s gonna be some interactions obviously I’m much more mindful of it
but uh, maybe very aware of the amount of time that I was spending just into my mobile
device uh, because of notifications. Um so I know that’s a bit of a time management
thing as much as anything.
Jason: Yeah, it’s a great one. It’s a great one.
Jason: So I have the, like the major sufferer of red dot phoebia.
Mary: Oh, oh I know, I know and this at least through that so you can think that I, that I
would even do this just given the fact that playing with social media space but uh, it
was, it was an accidental discovery because I sort of forgot that they were still off when
I came back and then realized that I could actually function and in fact, it was really
Jason: Yeah. Yeah, that’s a big one. It really is. We really underestimate just how much
those little red dots I’d say, have a number of them.
Mary: That doesn’t say why they hired psychologists. Uh [inaudible]
Jason: Uh, I’m the worst at it and I, and I must admit, I, I turned them all off like, like you
did and I, and I, and I was really tough um, ’cause it’s so like, what if I had — what if I
Mary: But it’s a huge form of, right? Like, like what am I missing out?
Jason: Yeah, but already is and, and you know what? It’s, it’s all still there when you go
and check but, but you probably will go a lot more than in the meantime so that’s a,
that’s a great one. Love it. I love that one. It’s, yeah, I resonate with that so turn off
those notifications and uh, get more than. Fantastic. All right, Mary, thank you so much
for coming on the show. If people wanna find out more about you and what you are
doing, the great work you are doing which is the, around LinkedIn and, and your uh, you
jump on into your email uh, weekly newsletter, how, how would they do that?
Mary: Well, if you go on to Five Minute marketing dot com and that’s F-I-V-E minute
marketing dot com,
you can get on to the, the blog and I am sure they’ll be prompted with uh,”Would you
like to receive the newsletter?” Um, there’s also a sign up in there as well but um,
absolutely that would be the best way to uh, to make sure they get into that content
we’d love to have.
Jason: Ah, fantastic. All right, well, I put a link to that in the show notes as well so if
anyone’s uh, uh, willing to jump over there and check out uh, Mary’s newsletter, it’s
fantastic content she does and uh, I really appreciate you coming the show and sharing
those gems with us. It’s been great to have you on the show.
Mary: Well, this, this has been uh, been great, Jason. I really appreciate it. It was, it was
awesome meeting up with you down San Diego and uh, I’ve, I’ve heard nothing but
good things about uh, you know, uh, Business Made Easy and uh, actually there’s a
couple of other folks when I mentioned that I was gonna be coming on up podcast call
with you. They said,”Oh yeah, yeah, no I listened to Jason.”
Jason: Oh thank you.
Mary:”Oh yeah, oh yeah we listened to Jason.”
Jason: That’s it, Jason, mate. Fantastic. Good on you, Mary, thanks for coming on and
um, I really appreciate you. Thank you.
Mary: Yeah, I appreciate it. Thanks for having me.
Jason: Bye. Well, there you have it, that’s uh, Mary Charleson from Five-Minute
Marketing and uh, honestly she’s doing some fantastic work. Now, check out her, check
out her sites and um, and subscribe to her, her weekly newsletter. Really, is great
content and um, she certainly knows this stuff when it comes to this, uh, the marketing
side of things. Alrighty, that’s all I had time for this week. I hope uh, all is well with you
and um, you’ve got some, some good goals and strategies plan for the, for the upcoming
week. Remember, if you haven’t done so already, uh, pop over to our Facebook group,
our free Facebook group community over there. It’s uh, you can get to it by going to
Business Made Easy Podcast dot com slash community and um, great group of
entrepreneurs and business owners over there talking all things business. Alrighty,
thanks so much for joining me. I really do appreciate you tuning in. Don’t forget to hit
the subscribe button if you haven’t. If you enjoyed the episode
and you, and you uh, you really like to show, um, or have been enjoying the content,
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Alrighty, that’s it for me until next week, here’s to your success and uh, I’m going to
hand you over to Mia. Take us out, Mia.
Mia: Thanks Jason. You’ve been listening to the Business Made Easy podcast where we
made business easy.