I catch up with Pat Flynn from Smart Passive Income in San Diego to chat about all things entrepreneurship, his journey in business, the work involved to achieve success and how he approaches business and life as well as his strategies with YouTube and business going forward. A massive show and a great interview with a truly great guy.


  • How losing his job was the “best thing that happened” to Pat and why.
  • The difference between knowing HOW everything works in your business V’s actually DOING everything yourself. The benefits of delegation.
  • Time management tips and the “Batch Processing” method
  • Creating Super Fans and Ambassadors for your brand.
  • Adopting the “Serve First” approach
  • Plus SO much more!



Jason: You’re on episode 35 of the Business Made Easy Podcast. Let’s do this, Mia.
Mia: You’re in the Business Made Easy Podcast. Where we make business easy. Here’s
your host: Jason Skinner.
Jason: G’day and welcome to the Business Made Easy Podcast where we make
business easy. I’m your host, Jason Skinner, and I want to thank you for joining me for
another episode of the show where we navigate this crazy thing we call business and
entrepreneurship, all the stresses and strains and highs and lows and goods and bad’s
it’s a real mixed bag at times, I know, but I seek to bring you value each week to help
you navigate that and help you make business easy.
That’s the name of the show. If it’s the first time joining me, welcome. I’m glad you’re
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For those of you who have been with the show before and still on the show, welcome,
thank you, welcome back. Glad you’re here and I hope all is going well in business for
you. If you haven’t already joined the Facebook community, we’ve got a great
community of business owners and entrepreneurs over there talking about strategies
and their wins and challenges that they’re having. You may be able to help somebody
over there and add some value to them and vice versa. It’s a free community to be a
part of and you can join it by going to so it’s and I will let you in over there. The only
criteria are that you’re passionate about business, you want to grow your business and
have a well-balanced life and you a nice person, really. There are quite an easy criteria
to fit so, by all means, jump over there and join up there. There are some people talking
about some great things and such a broad skill set and diverse range of entrepreneurs
and successful people and people starting out. There are a whole mixed bag and the
great community. I really love the people over there, so yeah do that.
Got a very special guest with us today on the show and he is a business mentor that I
have followed for some time now. I’ve consumed all his content and courses and I’m
very active in his communities but I really value the openness and the genuineness in
which he delivers his content and he answers his community. He really is the real deal
as far as walking the talk and he does that by sharing his wins, not only his wins, but it
also shares his losses and the trials that he’s had, as well, openly on his blog and on his
podcast he has two very successful podcasts being the “Smart Passive Income Podcast”
as well as the “Ask Pat Podcast”. He’s also been the author of two successful books
being “Let Go” and “Will it Fly?”. “Will it Fly” was actually a Wall Street Journal
bestseller, self-published Wall Street bestseller.
He’s run and operated successful niche sites that have provided him thousands of
dollars of income each month which he still continues to run today and really just
goes to the edge of the earth to make sure that his people in his community and can’t
do enough to help people to succeed in business and that’s why I was so honored to
have him on the show he took the time out (4:00) of his busy schedule to come and do
this interview with us. I was just so honored and grateful and not only that is the cut
time for all this business stuff and public speaking gigs all over the world but he’s also a
genuine family man as well with his young family and I just don’t know how he fits it all
in, to be honest, but it but he does and he does it so graciously and so well. So without
further ado, you’ve probably guessed who our guest is but please welcome Pat Flynn to
the show.
Jason: Well, hello everybody and I have the one and only Pat Flynn in the house. Pat
how are you, mate?
Pat: Hello I’m doing well. How are you?
Jason: Good. Thank you. Great to be here in your hometown of San Diego.
Pat: Yes, so we have a beautiful view of the bay right now from your hotel room and
we’re recording this episode. Just it’s an amazing day and I’m just thankful to be here
with you Jason.
Jason: Thank You Pat yeah I’m getting glad you could for the time. We had a big day at
Traffic and Conversion Summit so yeah, it’s been enjoyable for you.
Pat: Yeah, it’s definitely been enjoyable, you know, these events, especially ones like
this or there– so there’s so many people. And it’s just great to connect and build
relationships. it can get over– overwhelming at times especially in tight quarters but
you know from the speakers to the content to the vendors, it’s just you know it’s always
great to get out there and you know I’m an introvert actually and I force myself to go
out because I know it can do wonders for my business to build these relationships.
Jason: Definitely it can and it’s I mean with so many people too you just get swallowed
up so quickly. Six and a half thousand people or something.
Pat: Yes and you know I’m sort of well-known in this space so you know maybe I’m not
doing myself any favors by wearing a backpack that says “Hello, I”m Pat.” Telling
everybody, “Hey, if you see this backpack, come say “Hi.”” because I definitely get
stopped quite a bit but
Jason: The signature backpack which is “Go to Hell.” [laughs] until I actually found you
today actually in that crowd.
Pat: It’s working.
Jason: Yes, it’s good. Right. I want to, um, I’m glad (6:00) you’re here because I really
want to talk to you about your entrepreneur– entrepreneurial journey because I know
from the old architecture days back in there in the 2008 and you’ve– just you’ve just
been on a massive– massive work– I’m gonna call it a work curve, because I don’t– you
probably one of the busiest people I know but yet have achieved so much in that period
of time. Can you share with us some of your, I guess, some of your journey from that
point. I know I know working on your, um, it started off with the blog and then into the
podcast so I’d love to hear a bit about that.
Pat: Yeah, I mean, I first got started in 2007 actually by keeping track of notes for an
exam I was taking. This was a really difficult exam in the architecture industry. Never
had any intention of creating a business as a result of doing this but after passing this
exam, it is called the LEED exam, I let that site sit there because I had no more news for
it and then eventually in mid 2008, I was told I was gonna be let go for my architecture
position which was really difficult for me but actually through that, I discovered a
podcast called Internet Business Mastery where I discovered this thing called the
Internet that you can then potentially build a business out of and if you have
information to share you could potentially become known as an expert or an authority
in that space and sell information and then sell coaching and sell products. So that
brought me back to my website because I knew that there were a lot of people who
also wanted to pass this exam and actually one of the first things I did and learned
about was a tool called Google Analytics that you can put on your website to track how
much traffic you would have on your website. I never had any need for it before ’cause
that website I created was just for me and my co-workers to help us pass this exam. So I
put the tool on the website and the next day I open it up and I see that there are
thousands of visitors.
Jason: Wow.
Pat: And it freaks me out. I have no idea exactly where they’re coming from. I thought it
was just you know(8:00) maybe I visited the website a thousand times and that’s what
it was tracking but no. From 20-plus different countries from around the world, people
found and were already using my blog to help them pass this exam. So to make a long
story short, I turn that into a business by selling a study guide, by putting advertising on
the website, by selling classes that other people had taught and ev– eventually got to
the point where it was making seven eight nine ten thousand dollars a month through
the selling of these products and it was just absolutely life-changing for me because
number one: you know, I got laid off and I thought my life was over, you know, I was
ready to go back to school and then–
Jason: Daunting, huh.
Pat: It was. And then here I was doing something I had never done before, you know,
and– and– being very scared in the process and having it work. It was pretty amazing
but more than that, in addition to the income that I was getting, I was getting incredible
thank-you letters and notes from my students and that’s something I never thought
would happen because you know in architecture you can build a building and nobody
would nobody will ever know who designed it or who built it even our own homes
where we raise our families. We don’t even know who built those homes. But here it
was, helping people pass this little tiny exam and I was getting thanked for it and I was
actually building a set of fans who were then sharing this website and being an
ambassador for it and it just started to grow and grow and grow. And then from there
I– I knew that I wanted to share how all this happened and that’s when I started my
website. It’s at very late 2008 and that’s when I just started to
share anything and everything I learned along the way, also sharing what I was
attempting to do and what worked what didn’t work and I also, this is what I became
kind of known for, I also shared how much money I was making in exactly, how many
sales I was making, where it was all coming from, and that seemed to strike a chord, in a
good way, in the internet marketing space because nobody was doing that. I was like, I
became known as like this transparent entrepreneur and then I– from there I had a,
you know, after (10:00) blogging for a while and that was you know three days a week
Monday, Wednesday, Friday I was blogging I added on a podcast which started out as a
one every other week kind of thing and then it turned into once a week and then I
added an additional podcast on top of that called Ask Pat in 2014. I started speaking. I
started writing books and getting paid to do that now. it’s just incredible the journey
I’ve been on and I think the greatest thing, it’s two great things has happened as a
result of this and you can remember I got laid off. I thought it was the worst thing ever
but it actually turned into a huge blessing in disguise. Number one: it was just it’s just
the amount of people I’ve been able to help and the recognition I get for being a part of
other people’s stories is incredible. I get, every day, dozens of thank-you notes, emails,
and handwritten notes when I go to my mailbox from people who just say I’ve had an
effect on their lives in some way which is just incredible but number two: on a personal
level I mean I have now the freedom and flexibility in my time and schedule to be with
my family and to do things or to go away for a week and go on vacation just because we
can and yet the business still continues to run. I’ve built it in a way such that I’m now
working on my business. My business is no longer working me or I’m not working in my
business and you know, the big shift really came in 2015-2016 when I was feeling a
little overwhelmed with all the things I was doing, eventually made this mindset shift
from scrappy entrepreneur who wanted to do everything himself to know how can I
become the CEO of my company? Somebody who, you know, delegates, somebody who
is smart with where money is being spent or time as being spent, somebody who will
invest money back into the business, somebody who learns how to say no to
opportunities even though they might seem like ones you should say yes to. So, you
know, that journey has been amazing. (12:00) That shift from scrappy entrepreneur to
CEO because now the business is scaled and grown quite massively.
Jason: Yeah.
Pat: To the tune of, you know, we’re making a hundred to two hundred thousand dollars
a month now as a result of this and, you know, if I didn’t have this mind shift change, I
would either just stay at a lower level of income and stay, you know, busy yeah or burn
out so I’m very thankful that I have learned from a lot of other people and a lot of other
examples of how to do this right.
Jason: You hit a nail on the head there particularly in the internet space because it is– it
is a very introverted sort of world, isn’t it?I mean you it’s you on the computer screen.
Pat: Yeah.
Jason: Particularly when you’re starting out. I mean, you’re not sitting in an office full of
people or, you know, peers. You– you’re either emailing them and talking that way.
Pat: Right.
Jason: And so it’s a ve– I think it’s very easy to– to I guess not look at that CEO role as
a very important role and just sort of get it let it swallow like you get sort of getting
swallowed up but is that hey you sort of fill that time?
Pat: Yeah, I mean, there was a number of things that happened at the start, you know,
for one, you kind of feel a sense of pride for doing things yourself and then being busy
and staying busy and hustling, you know, as they are saying.
Jason: Yeah, hustle.
Pat: Hustle and grind and, you know, I’m halfway in agreement with people like Gary V
who are all about the hustler, right? I think it’s important to hustle but I also think it’s
important to hustle on knowing when to work hard and when not to work hard, when
to take breaths, when to have time on the other side too, you know, decompress a little
bit or spend time with family, not just work 18 hours a day. That’s great for Gary. That’s
in his DNA but it’s not in most people’s DNA. But it is a grind, at first, and I think a part
of that is you know, the results take time as much as my story seems like an overnight
success for one, it wasn’t overnight. (14:00) Secondly, I worked my butt off.
Jason: Yeah.
Pat: You know, but then once you start and you have this feeling of,”Oh, the work I put
in and the busier I work, the more results I get, you kind of get into this this loop of that
can be very dangerous because you all you want to do is work harder and grind harder
because you expect different results but I think at some point you have to make a
decision to not work harder but work smarter.
Jason: Yeah.
Pat: Right, and that’s where the smart and smart passive income really stems from is,
you know, not just, you know, doing and doing and doing but planning and deciding and
making, you know, smart decisions that will help take your business forward.
Jason: Yeah, and– and um, that– that concept, the smart passive income, you touch the
point there is that it’s– it’s– whilst it’s passive, it doesn’t mean you don’t have to work
for it.
Pat: No.
Jason: [laughs] It doesn’t work out right?
Pat: You know, it’s funny people here my website domain name and smart passive
Jason: Yeah, that’s on the beach with a laptop.
Pat: That’s what I think where they’re like, “Oh, who’s the scummy guy, you know, but
that’s I– I– purposefully put those terms into my domain name, passive income,
because I knew that that’s what people wanted but I wanted to be the person to show
them the truth behind it the fact that A: It does not happen overnight, B: It’s not easy
but C: It is possible and here’s how you do it and here are the steps to take and here are
some real life examples for me and others who are doing it as well. It’s– it’s definitely
something that you have to work for and at the same time, passive income, you know,
my definition of it is investing time upfront so that your business can then reward you
back later. It doesn’t mean that once you build it, you can set it and forget it forever but
you can build systems and put automation into your business such that you can take
some time away and this is very much inspired by this was the first book I ever read in
the entrepreneurial space. It’s 4-hour workweek by Tim Ferriss. He talks a lot about,
you know, taking mini-retirements you know, building these systems so that you can
take a month off or you can go on a break (16:00) but your business still continues to
run, not walking away from them forever. Now I will say I do have some web properties
that I haven’t touched for five years that are still generating a few thousand dollars a
month. However, I still work hard because I’m building new assets and the assets that
are paying back the most or rewarding or the most rewarding are the ones where I do
find that, you know, if I am smart with where I put my time into what I do get, you know,
some some good return.
Jason: Yeah, good return on that investment.
Pat: Right.
Jason: And that’s what you’re doing at the moment with YouTube. I mean, I notice you
YouTube following
Pat: Yeah.
Jason: Is growing beautifully like in
Pat: Thank you.
Jason: The quality of the videos and do you wanna tell us a little bit about that
Pat: Yeah, you know, YouTube is interesting, you know. I’ve been a blogger first and
then a podcaster second and now even I would say you know I’m actually a podcaster
first I’ve been podcasting more and I still think that’s the number one medium for the
relationship building, for scalability, for the ease of creation of that– of that product
but the YouTube is interesting because you know videos you know something that a lot
of people are consuming these days and I think that because it’s not easy to create an
engaging video, that gives me a little bit of an edge in the space that helps me stand out
from the competition. It’s also a creative outlet for me too, you know. You can get
pretty creative on a podcast. However having video and the ability to edit and and and
and just be silly and weird, it just gives me a creative outlet that I haven’t had in a while
a platform where you can pretty much do whatever you want and people who like what
you do they’ll– they’ll follow you, right? And they’ll– they’ll spread the word for you.
Jason: Yeah, and grow up– grow up from there.
Pat: Now, there is a play here though. It’s not just for fun. It is for business and it does
support a lot of the things that I’m promoting and the courses that I’m coming out with.
It’s going to be primarily used for lead generation but also it’s a great relationship
building tool. I mean just like a podcast. It’s a great platform to (18:00) invite people on
to have a conversation, to share that knowledge with your audience but also to you
know have a twenty to thirty minute sometimes an hour conversation with somebody
who you wouldn’t normally be able to get access to. So now that I have a video channel
with a significant number of subscribers, I can use that and leverage that to say, “Hey,
other people with a large number of subscribers, let’s collab. Let’s do a collaboration
together and, you know, you can come on my channel. I can come on your channel. And
that’s pretty common in the YouTube space. I think it should be more common in the
podcast space as well but you get that crossover of growth and that just can help
accelerate your business as a result of leveraging that following that you have on a
platform where not everybody has that.
Jason: Yeah. I think and like I come from a very much “don’t share your knowledge” and
this of all your approach to business is so refreshing for me. As an accountant.
Pat: Uh-huh.
Jason: You know, um, you don’t dare go on publishing– publish your knowledge. That’s
your IP, you know, that’s what– that’s your six minutes you’re selling to– to a customer
Pat: Right.
Jason: And if you give that away, um, then uh, you know, what else have you got to sell?
But what I love about your approach is that it’s valued upfront– but there’s just so
much value that you provide upfront. And it’s totally free. I mean, the classic case is
your podcasting course which I which have a part of but you have a free podcasting
course too. So like it’s not like he’s saying,”No, unless you pay for this–
Pat: Right, then– the premium products are there for people who want to go deeper.
Jason: Yeah.
Pat: The free stuff is valuable and it’s stuff that some people will just use it. Just that.
But they’re still going to pay you back in some way through sharing or through a
testimonial, you know, so that so, you know, the “serve first” approaches worked really
well for me.
Jason: Yeah.
Pat: Especially in the space where, you know, all that information is likely available for
free anyway.
Jason: Yeah.
Pat: So why not share it in the most pristine in an(20:00) invaluable way but also offer
additional ways for people to work with you whether it’s access or courses or other
higher levels of training, it’s just worked out really, really well and I think a lot of people
are now seeing the benefit of, you know, just, you know, give the secret sauce away.
People will still want more help. I mean the same thing with my book, “Will it Fly?” I
mean that’s not a free thing but it is a cheaper version of what I teach in my course
“Smart from Scratch” and yes the book itself could teach you everything that you need
to know to validate a business idea and start building that but still people want the
hand-holding. They want a little bit of accountability. They want the community to go
with it so by offering that, you know, you’re able to bring people into the book and then
a certain percentage of people who are in the book into the course
Jason: Yeah.
Pat: And you know, I could probably take it a few levels deeper. A few percentages of
people in the course into a live event if I wanted to or perhaps one on one coaching at a
higher price for each of them but I proved– I purchased purposefully you don’t want to
do that because I also know that well that requires more time and so I have to draw the
line somewhere and that line is currently with some coursework for those particular
sets of people in my audience, you know.
Jason: Is there a plan to– is there a plan for you to so now you’ve had like a community
aspect before in terms of a paid membership top community. Is that something that
you would see on the cards down the track or–
Pat: I can– I can see that and a lot of my audiences actually asked for it. They, you know
and I’ve learned over time, I mean, I even pay for access to certain communities
because I want to be with people who understand what I talk about, right?
Jason: Yeah. Yeah.
Pat: Yeah, and I’m not just talking about business too but certain hobbies or other
things like I just, you know, I– I would gladly pay to feel like a part of something and I
think that’s just human nature to want to be a part of a group and to be, you know, with
others who speak the same language so by creating a community where people can
come (22:00) together, I think that that would provide a lot of value for people.
Jason: Yeah.
Pat: You know and perhaps that would also include you know additional information
although I– ‘ve found that, you know, people don’t necessarily want more information.
they want to belonging, they want to access, and they want to feel special.
Jason: Yeah.
Pat: And people would pay for that experience.
Jason: Yeah.
Pat: For sure.
Jason: yeah I’m and it’s something you do just so well in all your communities. I can
speak firsthand I’m involved in mine. I think you’re right it is. I mean how many times
are you giving downloads and downloads of information we look at the statistics of
people that
actually used free information download. You could put your best stuff in that
download and yet minimal people actually use it or implement.
Pat: Oh yeah. I mean that’s a, you know people love free stuff but–
Jason: Yeah.
Pat: — because it’s free they don’t take action on it, right. That, that’s, that’s another
thing to be said for it and then this is something that I learned as I started to have the
CEO mindset because before I made this decision to have, to have this approach in my
business, I was giving everything away for, for free but not selling courses. I was making
money through affiliate marketing primarily. And I didn’t feel the need to trade courses
coz I was like, well, I’m already making a lot of money through affiliate marketing. I’m
giving everything away for free. I was worried that if I were to charge for additional
premium information and experience and accessibility that people would be upset.
They’re like, oh, you’ve gone to the dark side.
Jason: Yeah.
Pat: However, like I was discussing earlier, there is a lot of value in creating and
packaging things in a more convenient manner. In a manner where people can get
access to other people and also myself. And I found that you know, even though a lot of
the information has been available for a while such as my podcasting, my free
podcasting tutorial, like creating a podcasting course people now have invested not
just in me but in then themselves to create something and to build something. So, the
podcasting course is great because it’s very clear. You pay for the course, you will have
a podcast.
Jason: At the end.
Pat: At the end. That has listeners. And if I don’t do that then I’m not doing my job.
Jason: Hm-mmm.
Pat: Or you’re not taking action. But because there’s skin in the game for them, they’re
more likely to, you know, actually, take action and succeed.
Jason: Yeah.
Pat: You know, if I were to give away the same stuff that I had in my course for free
exactly like just as is- just charges $0.04 I guarantee you I wouldn’t have as many
successful students.
Jason: No. I know because people just don’t take, take action on, on, you know, they
don’t, they don’t they- I mean, I, I had a client one time that I, actually don’t know when
financial hurt you and I donated a day of my time–
Pat: Hm-mmm.
Jason: To come into the office and actually work through uhm their business. And, and,
to had it, top help them get back on their feet. Uhm they implemented none of it. At the
whole day. Uhm so yeah. I’ve, I had made that decision myself to that for no more. You
Pat: Yeah.
Jason: From now on you just, people just don’t value what they don’t pay for and
Pat: Right, right.
Jason: Yeah.
Pat: I mean there has to be some sort of transaction or consequence or–
Jason: Yeah. Some pioneer
Pat: Some, something I think in order to get people to take action. I think that’s, that’s a
really important lesson for sure.
Jason: Yeah, yeah. It’s good. uhm Pat, uhm, as a, ahh ahh you amaze me with just how
much you ahh get through in a day or since you get through in a day. The amount of
content that this comes out of SPI uhm and in, in, in running the groups and the, and the
whole thing. Ahh what’s, what’s a week look like for you these days as it, is it, is it uhm I
mean you still managing family time or those sort of thing that, that–
Pat: Yeah, I mean the family time is the most important time for me. I mean that stuff is
on the schedule.
Jason: Yeah.
Pat: It’s because of, for me if it’s not on the schedule, it doesn’t get done.
Jason: Yeah.
Pat: And I think it’s important to have time as for where I know that I’m not supposed
to be working.
Jason: Yup.
Pat: That’s really important for me. Now, luckily, this year is the first year that both kids
were in school at the same time. Five days a week. So, my wife April is happy. Coz she
has some time to herself. But I’m also happy too because now I have times in the middle
of the day where I know I can focus.
Jason: Yup.
Pat: Before that, a lot of time ahh for work was before the kids got up ahh
I’d wake up sometimes 4:30 to get things done before the kids got up.
Jason: Hmm.
Pat: Because then, I wouldn’t wanna ever try and fit work and personal life together.
Jason: Yup.
Pat: Uhm when you blur those lines like nothing gets done. You’re not a, you’re not a
great parent but you’re also at the same time not a great business person. So, it’s
always best to separate those things as much as possible. In terms of hours ehh ehh and
when things happen. Uhm and also a lot of times I was working late at night too. But
now it’s in middle day. But every day is still structured as for maximum efficiency.
Jason: Hmm.
Pat: And productivity and it’s done in, in a way that is based on you know, the plans that
we have in our business. So, before, so before, just to contrast this, you know I, you
know had an ahh blog posting schedule on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. And so,
let’s say it’s Sunday, I’d opened up WordPress and I’d start to write my post for Monday.
And I publish that and then take the rest of the day off and then on Tuesday, I’d write
the post for Wednesday. And on Thursday, I’d write the post for Friday. And so I was on
this content hamster wheel.
Jason: Hmm.
Pat: Every single week.
Jason: Because the list got by so far.
Pat: They do. But luckily, you know I have gotten to ahh you know some good, some
good teachings on how to write efficiently and how to structure a blog post. And how
to plan well as writing but even still you know if I missed a day, I’d fallen, I fell behind.
Jason: Yeah.
Pat: And it just never felt very good. So, eventually, I learned how to batch process. And
how to actually make it easier for myself to uhm to create content. And I do this in my
podcast now and videos. So, for now, like you said videos as you can tell is, is a primary
focus of mine now. So, ahh Monday I wake up. Put the kids into school with my wife.
And that’s one thing that we’re always gonna do as we bring the kids to school together
and we take them home. Unless there are some special events happening around the
area. Uhm it’s really crazy coz were like the only sets of parents who do that. And we’ve
had people, parents and teacher come out to us and ask like, how are you able to do
Jason: Hmm.
Pat: Like you’re the only set of parents who
every single day does this. Did you win the lottery, like are you, you know, trust fund
babies. Like how is this, how is this, and, and I’m like no, I’ve built a business in a way
that allows me to do this because I know that once the kids were in school I’m gonna–
Jason: You designed this life.
Pat: I designed it, right.
Jason: Yeah.
Pat. It’s lifestyle design. So, anyway, on Mondays ahh that is uhm I go into my ahh office
with my videographer and we plan the videos that we’re gonna uhm shoot uhm that
are, that are likely gonna be published you know, three or four weeks out.
Jason: Yup.
Pat: Uhm tsk on Tuesday that’s our filming day. So, I wake up, bring the kids to school
and I go into the studio and we film probably five or six videos that day. Uhm for a week
that’s happening you know, four, five week, three or four weeks in advance. Uhm so
then you know those videos are done.
Jason: Hmm.
Pat: Wednesday is my meetings day. So, that’s when uhm anytime I, I, I have any sort of
meetings with the team or have meetings with other people, we always try to force
that into Wednesday. Ahh, Thursday ahh is my recording day for my podcast.
Jason: Hm-mmm.
Pat: So, and it’s not every, every Thursday but if there are interviews to be done, those
are scheduled on Thursday. If there are uhm podcast ahh shows to create for me uhm
that’s always done on Thursday too.
Jason: Hmm.
Pat: So, I wake up in the day knowing exactly what that one thing that I’m focusing on is.
That’s really important.
Jason: Yeah.
Pat: Because then I don’t get mixed up.
Jason: Yup.
Pat: And uhm I can, I can devote on my energy. I can think about the next day, you know,
as I get, as I get into it. Or, or you know, when I wake up, I already know what I’m
focusing on. I’m rarely thinking about it when I wake up. Uhm and then Friday is usually
off day or, or clean up day. Uhm and, and you know, I, I, I now hold ahh office hours for
you know, a couple of hours on that day too just coz I love it so much. But ahh yeah, I
think it’s really important to, to plan ahead and schedule. I think with content also now
what’s been really helpful is, especially with the written content and with the podcast
stuff I mean we’re, we’re recorded three months in advance now. I mean it’s—
Jason: Wow!
Pat: –February and we’re already recorded through June. Like those–
Jason: Wow!
Pat: –podcast are already edited and already–
Jason: Oh my God!
Pat: –to be published. So, I can take time to now focus on the launch of my next product
or just take time off, you know.
Jason: Yeah.
Pat: Uhm So, so, we’re actually–
Jason: It’s a concept of batch processing.
Pat: Yeah, the batch processing is key.
Jason: And prioritizing time.
Pat: Right.
Jason: And prioritizing task in the right boxes.
Pat: Right. Right. And that’s what works for me.
Jason: Yeah.
Pat: What, what may work for you or other people is different. But I think it’s important
to try and figure out what works for you. I think you know people either see some
productivity you know, a thing that’s somebody talks about and they just do that. Not
really considering or being conscious of well, is this the best for me. Or they just try to
say it’s best as possible which is never get either because you’re probably working
yourself to the ground and not making any progress.
Jason: Hmm.
Pat: To whatever your goals might be. Uhm and, and that’s the other thing like you need
to know why you’re you’re doing that work.
Jason: Yeah.
Pat: Because then you can make decisions and ask yourself is the thing I’m doing now
actually worth doing?
Jason: Hm-mmm.
Pat: And you can, you can hopefully have a clear yes or no. And if it’s a no then you can
move it aside and put something else in its place.
Jason: Yeah.
Pat: Ahh it’s, it’s like putting an address in the navigation system in your car, right? You
could probably drive and, and get through destination without that. But if you have at
least the directions you can, if you get off course get back on.
Jason: Right.
Pat: And, and that, that’s really important. So, you know, knowing for example, hey, we
have a launch coming up in April. Then I can reverse engineer leading up to that. Okay,
which content should I be creating? I already know months in advance, okay, we’re
gonna be doing a week of content about you know, ahh podcast or something that, then
leading to that launch. So, yeah, again planning, planning the calendars is huge. The
calendar and the schedule have been probably, you know people always ask me, what
are your top productivity tools? My calendar.
Jason: Yeah, yeah.
Pat: My calendar. That’s it.
Jason: Discipline.
Pat: Discipline. Discipline too. I mean that that’s hard. I mean–
Jason: It’s free.
Pat: –that, it takes practice too.
Jason: Yeah.
Pat: You mean you can schedule things out and not follow those–
Jason: Hmm.
Pat: –schedules. I think you have to honor the plans.
Jason: Yeah.
Pat: And yeah, things are gonna get off track every once in a while. But when you know
why you’re doing what you’re doing and, and you have that goal in mind, then you can
get back on track–
Jason: Yeah.
Pat: –if you get off.
Jason: I think that’s the critical thing of adopting that CEO mindset. Is that, it, it takes
you out of the business to, to, to focus on what’s important. And if it’s important when
you plan it out and you do it.
Pat: Hm-mmm.
Jason: Like you can, with, coz a CEO has a vision you know, for the business and where
they wanna go.
Pat: Right.
Jason: And uhm–
Pat: But a CEO is also not in the mail room.
Jason: No.
Pat: You know.
Jason: That’s right.
Pat: They’re hiring somebody to do that work for them So, I think you’re right. You
mean, it’s, it’s, it’s taking yourself out so you can see everything that’s going on. But also
putting the right people in place to do the things that need to happen.
Jason: Yeah.
Pat: If somebody else can do them for you. And potentially they do them better and
faster for you too.
Jason: Yeah.
Pat: That was another thing I learned in 2014 was you know, I love editing my podcast.
It was one of my favorite things because I can be creative in that process. And it was
just really cool to have this fully produced show after you know, recording bits and
pieces here and there. And putting the music and the voice-overs and stuff. It was really
Jason: Hmm.
Pat: But ahh in 2014 in order to have, had the ability to actually come out with a second
show, AskPat. I had to hire somebody or else it wasn’t, I just didn’t have the time. And
that was my first taste of what it was like to have somebody, not just edit the podcast
and do it. But do it faster and better. And I was like, oh man. I’ve been missing out. So,
then I was like, okay, how can I outsource all my podcasting now? And that just opened
up like seven area. That was a week for me.
Jason: Hmm.
Pat: Which you know, part of it used to work on other things. Part of it’s used to spend
time with the family. But it’s eight hours that it’s still getting done and it’s just not
getting done by me. And yes, it does cost money to do that. But I also need to consider
how much does my time mean to me. Like how much is my time worth to me.
Jason: That’s it. I have a, I have a saying around that. That’s uhm you wanna be the
a conductor of the orchestra, not the one playing all the instruments. And uhm–
Pat: Yeah.
Jason: — I think it’s so easy for business owners to fall into that trap of no one can do it
better than I can. So, I’ll just do it. It only takes me five minutes.
Pat: Right.
Jason: That five minutes add up.
Pat: Oh for sure.
Jason: And ahh so, how many, how many people are on the team play[?] these days?
Pat: So, we have about ten people.
Jason: Wow!
Pat: Who each have their specialty. But they’re not full time. And, and, and there, there,
there as I like to call on time.
Jason: Yeah.
Pat: Meaning you know, if a blog post has to be edited then the editor, ahh that’s one
person, goes and edits that blog post. And it’s, it’s on their calendar. It’s in their, we use
a couple of tools. We use Trello and also Co-Scheduler–
Jason: Yup.
Pat: –to plan that out and to assign tasks to people. Uhm and they just get it done on
time. Uhm and if it takes them two minutes or two hours or two days, doesn’t matter to
me. As long as they get done on time.
Jason: Yup.
Pat: And so, that allows the team to have a little bit of flexibility and, and they all work
remotely as well.
Jason: Yup.
Pat: Uhm the only person that I speak to is really Matt. I mean I speak to everybody
obviously but the person that I correspond with mainly because you know, a lot of
people who you know, they know you need to hire out. So, they hire out but then
they’re micromanaging, right?
Jason: Yup.
Pat: They’re micro-managing and they’re actually working harder managing those
people that they hired to–
Jason: Yeah.
Pat: — have them work less. So, it doesn’t work out like that. Uhm it, it doesn’t work out
all the time. Unless you hire somebody who can be that person to help manage that
team for you. So, I have ahh my, my right-hand man Matt, ahh who’s essentially the
project manager and the liaison between myself and the team who is doing the things
that we’re you know,–
Jason: Alright.
Pat: –shooting for. And so, if there are any problems, he puts out those fires. I don’t
even know about them.
Jason: Yeah.
Pat: If there’s anything that I want to be done, I talk to Matt and he orchestrates them.
So, he’s almost like, he’s almost like the conductor.
Jason: Yeah, yeah.
Pat: And I’m just the guy who owns the orchestra.
Jason: That’s it. That’s it.
Pat: You know what I mean?
Uhm but I really like that analogy of orchestra too because I think it’s important to
however when you’re starting out especially with the business to at least understand
how those instruments work.
Jason: Yup.
Pat: Right? So, I–
Jason: Know when you’re out of tune.
Pat: Right. To know, just to, okay, so, you can help a person who maybe they’re playing it
incorrectly to get them right on the border if they’re you know, they re-breaks you can
give them or read a note which one to give them.
Jason: Hmm.
Pat: Ahh you know, a lot of–
Jason: It’s also good you’re in the band.
Pat: Yeah, yeah. I can go all day.
Jason: [inaudible] like music stuff
Pat: Oh yeah, you bet you’ve opened up a can worms here. But you know, it’s like, with
the podcasting stuff, you know, like eh eh and you know there’s a lot of students in the
course. Ahh, they ask like, oh can I just hire somebody to do all this for me right from
the start?
Jason: Yeah.
Pat: You could,–
Jason: Yeah.
Pat: –right? But I always recommend doing it yourself first. So, that A, you can
appreciate just the art of it. I think it’s important to, to have it your hands in there. Uhm
but number two, I, I do recommend people get some point where they hire out
somebody to edit their podcast and, and do everything but be the voice in the podcast.
Uhm but if you do that up front, if something would have broken or if that person who
was doing it for you would have to away well, then you’re, you’re left stranded.
Jason: Yeah.
Pat: I mean you have no experience at all. And you don’t know how to pick it up at least
help out for a week or two as you find somebody new.
Jason: Yup.
Pat: Ahh that can really derail you and throw you off. So, I always suggest that you do
the work yourself first at least a couple of times so you can understand how it works.
So you can find the way that works for you. And that way then you can record or
capture those methods or that, that operating procedure, procedure. Uhm to then
hand it off in the way that you want it done.
Jason: Hmm.
Pat: So that if you know, you don’t wanna do anymore, somebody else can do it. Or if
that person were to remove themselves for some reason, you can come back and you
know, at least, in or give it to somebody else.
Jason: Hmm.
Pat: Ahh very easily after that. Uhm–
Jason: It’s a difference between uhm delegation and ahh ahh abdication.
Pat: Hm-mmm.
Jason: You know. You abdicate the responsibilities to someone else. You, you still have
a responsibility as the
CEO business owner.
Pat: Right.
Jason: To ahh yeah, make sure all you, all year round instruments are in tune so to
Pat: Hm-mmm.
Jason: So, yeah, yeah. It’s cool. Excellent. Pat, uhm, I’m conscious of time but I, uhm tsk
ahh one of the things I do like to ask all my guest when they come on the show is, is, ahh
what is working for you at the moment in, in business world, it could be an app, it could
be a tip. Ahh but something that you’re getting just, just, uhm fantastic result.
Pat: Yeah, I mean I think it’s important now for all businesses to consider not just how
to get more traffic, you know, and I think that’s important obviously when your traffic.
But I think it’s what happens when that traffic comes to your website. And
understanding the customer journey. And for me, I think the big focus should be on not
just how to get new eyes on your brand but how to have the eyes that are already on
your brand open up wide.
Jason: Yup.
Pat: How to create Super Fans which is what I’m talking about at Social Media
Marketing World at my talk. It’s this, this idea of shifting the focus from, you know, if
you imagine a funnel–
Jason: Yup.
Pat: –right? Uhm starts at the top with descending traffic into that funnel and then
having people sort of either subscribe or ahh you know, consider themselves as
somebody who should continue down the fuddle, funnel, and then you know, pitching
them and then you make a sales. And the certain percentage of that overall traffic you
know, moves further and further down the funnel until you have sales at the end. But I
think it should be foot around. Where, imagine you have a pyramid. And at the bottom
is the traffic. And you have to work to get that traffic up to the top of the pyramid which
is where the raving fans are and the superfans. Coz those are the people who are gonna
support your brand.
Jason: Hmm.
Pat: They’re gonna be ambassadors without you even asking for it. They’re gonna buy
every single product. They’re gonna promote for you. They’re gonna defend you from
trolls. They’re going to ahh give you honest feedback when you need it. They’re gonna
be the people who are gonna have the most engagement and probably be the the the,
have the highest ahh LTV or lifetime value in your brand. So,–
Jason: Yup.
Pat: — why not focus on that. and there’s a number of different ways to do that.
But my favorite way is to just provide a human or person to person interaction. A
surprising one. Because I think in this world especially in the online space, you know,
we lose sight of the human being on the other end a lot. And when you can, especially in
that first interaction or when something goes wrong, if you can show up and be a
human and, and, and, and just give a person attention. Individual, personalized
attention. I mean, that goes a long way.
Jason: Yeah.
Pat: And that’s how you get remembered. That’s how you get shared. That’s how you
get loved. That’s how you stand out. Because not everybody’s gonna do that.
Jason: Yeah.
Pat: And especially for those viewers just starting out, that’s your advantage. You have
the ability to, with the time that you have and the small audience that you, yeah, you
have currently. You have the ability to reach out to almost every individual who’s in
your brand right now.
Jason: Hmm.
Pat: Your small email is to a hundred or a thousand people. You can, you can reach out
to them individually. There’ll be no way that I could possibly provide that kind of
experience for the 200,000 people on my email list. I still go through the process of
reaching out to individuals. And to sending, sending them video messages or, or just
thanking them for being a part of the community. Which does go a long way? But that’s
just a super small percentage of my audience. When for a lot of you that’s a majority of
your audience–
Jason: Yeah.
Pat: –that you can impact. And that will help grow your user base because those people
feed more traffic in and not just random cold traffic, it’s traffic that comes as a result of
ahh trust and relationship that already exist. Which is gonna be worth much more to
you. And as long as you can continue to serve and provide those ahh amazing
experiences and memories for people, I mean, your, your, you have a future-proof
brand right there.
Jason: Yeah.
Pat: Coz those fans are gonna go with you everywhere and, and be there for life.
Jason: Yeah. I think, I think it, it’s so refreshing to hear that because it’s like the old uhm
and as I tell my wife at it’s, it’s like the old Dale Carnegie principles have become
fashionable again all of a sudden. And the, the internet’s matured and–
Pat: Yeah.
Jason: –people have actually gone, hey, you know what, people still wanna be treated
with respect. People still wanna be listened to. People still on all eyes personal skills–
Pat: Hm-mmm.
Jason: –actually now matters even more than ever in the–
Pat: Yeah.
Jason: — internet space, you know.
Pat: It’s cool.
Jason: Because of uhm yeah, like particularly with box and ahh matching all these stuff
going on with box and automation and uhm yes, it helps you scale but, but as an empty
shell, really, isn’t it.
Pat: Yeah.
Jason: If you just look around on that.
Pat: Yeah. I mean without that personalization I mean you, you run the risk of just being
like everybody else.
Jason: Yeah, yeah. You don’t stand out. Pat, it’s been fantastic, mate.
Pat: Thank you, Jason.
Jason: Thank you so much for your time. I appreciate you taking the time out of the
conference account and have this chat.
Pat: Absolutely.
Jason: Yeah, it’s been, it’s been really awesome up. I tried to give you the best view
possible so.
Pat: This is ahh probably one of the most beautiful live podcasting views I’ve ever had.
So, sorry, sorry for this if you can’t see this right now. Maybe, maybe Jason will put a
picture up or something.
Jason: I will. I’ll take a photo. All the best. Thanks, Pat.
Pat: Thank you.
Jason: Appreciate it, man. All the best. Thanks, Pat.
Pat: Thank you.
Jason: Appreciate it, mate. There you have it that’s Pat Flynn and I’m sure you’ll agree
Pat is an absolute wealth of knowledge and experience when it comes to
entrepreneurship and the online space and everything he’s doing is just, just ahh just
knocking the ball out of the park. And as he said, with a lot of work too. Even on things
that that people reached this level of success. Overnight it surely hasn’t been and I, I
know for sure that it hasn’t been an overnight success thing for Pat. He had, he really
has put in the hours. And the blood, sweat and tears too and, and trolls and, and testing
and you know, all the stuff that goes with it. But, what I love about Pat’s story it just
shows you that you can go from hardship and you can go from a period of life where,
where you know, where things are all not seemingly rosy or going as well as they, as, as
you’d like. But, applying yourself and working hard and not giving up and continuing to,
to, to fight for that success. Uhm and you will get there. And you, you can
get there and, and Pat is the just absolute testament to that. And uhm as I said, I’m
absolutely honored that he would take the time out to join us for the show.
Well, that’s all I’ve got time for this week. Thank you so much for ahh for joining me on.
I’m so glad you’re here tsk and ahh you, you’ve tuned in. If you’ve got any feedback
please ahh, by all means, drop me a line to [email protected] and
I’ll certainly help you on answering any of that feedback that you have. Also to if you
have a question in business that you want answered to or you’d like featured on the
show, please ahh go to and hit that red record button
and I will ahh answer that question for you and play it on the show. Well, that’s all I’ve
got time for this week.
Thank you again. I appreciate you and here’s to your success. All the best.




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Pat Flynn from The Smart Passive Income Blog reveals all of his online business and blogging strategies, income sources and killer marketing tips and tricks so you can be ahead of the curve with your online business or blog.


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